20 10 216 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/583e611da9675ac47f38d96afbf54c59.jpg 9eead35bde0c210dc6cccbc9255e1598 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/709e33acc8481e8faf4d10235c6522a2.mp3 ef50f71b30221103e55a42c3e1e4403c https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/6cd9fb6e350744a2a17be08a0f1f2092.pdf 7e9d079ac6d3d9caaf4405c8f0927640 PDF Text Text Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 My name is Liz Wheelock and I am conducting an interview for the Ignacio oral history project entitled Voices of Ignacio, at the Ignacio Community Library on Thursday, May 19, 2016. I have with me a local member of the community and she has graciously permitted me to interview her. Please tell me your name, your birthdate, and how you came to be in Ignacio. Campbell: I am Linda Campbell, my birthdate is 3/29/42, and I moved to Ignacio in 1978. How we came here? I was born and raised in Montrose, Colorado. Grew up on a sheep ranch, my dad was a sheep rancher in Montrose and our ranch was in Cimarron, Colorado. I grew up living in the summer up in our ranch in Cimarron which was twenty-one miles from Montrose and then living in Montrose during the winter months. So would ride the school bus when we got to school age we’d ride the school bus in the fall until we moved down after hunting season is usually when my folks moved back to Montrose. Went through all the grades of school. Dropped out of kindergarten because I couldn’t stand the naps. (laughs) Outside of that, went straight through. Went to Western State College when I graduated from high school. Did my student teaching in Montrose at the junior high there which was really great because all of the teachers that I’d had when I was in junior high and I was their peer. It was probably one of the most fun times of teaching in my career. Well, no, not the most, but it was a great experience. Then my friend that was teaching there at the time in Montrose had graduated, she and her roommate had graduated from CSU and they had worked at Lake Tahoe the summer before and so she talked me into going out to Lake Tahoe. Wheelock: How old were you at this time? Campbell: Just graduated from college so twenty-two. She had her job at Lake Tahoe at Harrah’s club because she had worked there the summer before but we had no teaching jobs so we just thought, we’re going to wing it. (laughs) So we went all the way to California and I had a little black Volkswagen. She said when we move to California what you have to do is get a flower for your antenna because the parking lot at Harrah’s club at Lake Tahoe is bigger than the whole town of Montrose. There’s more cars than the whole town of Montrose. So I got a columbine and I had my little black Volkswagen and she had a Camaro, I can’t remember what kind of flower she had. So we drove to Lake Tahoe without any jobs, well 1 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 she had a job, I didn’t have any jobs, and had not a worry in the world. We thought we could always sell pencils on the corner if we had to. We could do it. The first night I got there, because basically I have never drank in my life and Western had a three-two bar, which was the Rambling Inn and I used to go out there but I never ever drank, and so when I first walked into Harrah’s club it was so far beyond what I ever imagined. People were gambling people were drinking, people were…you know and I thought, Oh my God! What did I get myself into? So then the next day, because she was the keno writer, Barb, and the next day I went to apply for a job and they had it was the back of the parking lot and there was just like a window back there and a whole huge line where people would just walk up and so you could tell… Wheelock: To apply? Campbell: Yeah, to apply because in the summer they hired 3,000 people and most of them were just graduated from college or first year teachers or for summer jobs. That was my first opportunity to apply for a job so as I was standing in this line you could hear what they were saying to two and three people in front of you and I remember the one person was a guy and they said, he had acne pretty bad I guess, and they said, “You cannot work at the front, we’ll have to put you somewhere in the back.” And then there was a lady a couple in front of my and they said, “Go lose ten pounds and then come back.” And I thought, “Oh shit!” I didn’t know it was going to be this hard. So then I get up there and they said, “Dealer school.” So I went to blackjack dealing school. You went for five days but in the mean time before it started we drove down to Sacramento where Barb’s roommate all through college lived to apply for jobs in the San Juan school district in Carmicle, California which is a suburb of Sacramento. So we got our teaching jobs right off. I was at La Sierra high school and she was at San Juan high school. At that time San Juan school district was the second largest in the state of California so there were ten high schools with 2,000 kids in each. It was big. Wheelock: It was high school that you got a job. Campbell: I got a job teaching P.E in California. We got an apartment right away. Everything just like…not a worry in the world, right? (laughs) Life just falls into place. We taught at different schools and then I kept my job at…oh and then we went back down to Lake Tahoe 2 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 for work during the summer dealing. Dealing school. That was pretty much an experience for me. You definitely know how to count to twenty-one in every way you can possibly do it. You went to school for five days. Three days you were in a class learning how to do it and then the fourth day you went out and just observed a dealer on the floor and then the fifth day you were that dealer and another person was with you and then after that… Wheelock: You were on your own? Campbell: You were on your own. It was a great experience then what took us down to Sacramento in between and got our teaching jobs. Worked all summer at Lake Tahoe as a blackjack dealer and then during the school year when school started I still worked at Tahoe. I’d drive up on weekends to Lake Tahoe from Sacramento. Wheelock: How long was the drive? Campbell: It was probably ninety miles or something. I had a little black Volkswagen and I would only fill it with gas once a week. Drove to school every day and then go to Tahoe and back and it would go and it cost me like five dollars or something for gas. I think gas was pretty… Wheelock: Twenty-eight cents. Campbell: Twenty-eight, twenty-nine cents. And you got blue chip stamps and (laughs) all of that stuff. Then after that Ben, my husband-to-be, he had gotten back from the Olympic games because the Tokyo Olympics in ’64 and so he was teaching, so this was in 1965 I guess, and so he was teaching in the San Juan school district and he was teaching adaptive P.E. at that time. So he went to all of the different high schools. He was giving a class for teachers, mainly for P.E. teachers to Judo, to teach them how to instruct Judo because he wanted it in the curriculum as an activity, a P.E. activity in the district. My roommate, who was a Home Ec. Major, she said, “Let’s take that class. Find out if he’ll let me go because I’m home ec. So we can go back to Montrose and flip people.” Because nobody had ever taken Judo in Montrose. I ask him and he said, “Yeah, that would be fine.” Then we took the class. First thing he did was totally insult me like he said, “Okay, if you’re as big as Linda you’ll take a size five Judo gi.” I looked and I said, “What?” And he said, “I mean as tall!” So one thing after another and then he had a friend there and so they decided they wanted to ask Barb and me out so 3 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 they flipped a coin to see which one. (laughs) Anyway, time went on and Ben and I got together and dated for three months and he had Judo camps up in Squaw Valley, California that summer and we dated three months and got married. We’re still married today so that’s pretty amazing. Wheelock: You knew right away. Campbell: Yeah, I guess. Wheelock: Now did you still have your teaching job after this? Campbell: Oh yeah. I was teaching at La Sierra high school. Taught for four years, I think it was, there and then I got pregnant with Colin our son and had him out in California. When ben and I first got married he had the Judo club and it was on Jackson road in Sacramento so we had a trailer that we lived in right behind the judo club and then I’d drive to work. In fact, we’d drive together and then he’d pick me up or whatever after school. We went to different schools. Wheelock: So did you have a big wedding? Campbell: Oh no, we got married at Park’s Wedding Chapel in Reno Nevada and we weren’t even sure it was legal. (laughs) Wheelock: Did your parents come? How did your parents take this? Campbell: We were at Judo camp up at Lake Tahoe that summer in august, I think. We started dating, I guess it must have been about may or something and one day he had me go up to camp with them to take care of all the records and stuff of all the people that enrolled into the camp and worked and so and then one day he just said, “Go call your dad and tell him we’re getting married.” I said, “What?” Very romantic. Wheelock: It did it for you. Campbell: It did it for me. So basically, I mean, I was totally fine not having a wedding because the summer before my sister had gotten married and all I heard all summer long was wedding plans, wedding plans, wedding plans just for…and then my best friend at that time got married that fall when I was, well it was still when I was still in college, and all I heard all fall was wedding plans, wedding plans, and I thought, “Oh I never want to go through that!” So I didn’t. Then we decided we’d come back to Colorado and we came back to Colorado and I got a job teaching GED through the Win program in 4 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Montrose. Ben had a hard time finding a job there in Montrose because, I don’t know, he wasn’t…So he decided he was going to go back to California and get a teaching job. He was there maybe six months or something then he went back and I stayed and I had Shannon, because Colin and Shannon are just a year apart in age. Shannon was born in Montrose and Colin was born in Sacramento. Then, after the end of the school year, Ben had gotten a job teaching in Allgrove, California. I finished teaching that year in Montrose the GED program and then went to…back to California. Wheelock: With two little ones. Campbell: With two little ones. They were like twins all the time. Then we bought a place, I said, “Well I want to live on Sheldon road in Allgrove if I move back.” So he found… Wheelock: Why? Campbell: Because it was a horsey place and I’ve always had horses, I’ve always ridden horses and had horses, you know a ranch and I just wanted and I don’t know it was like out in the country. At that time, it was zoned A2 it was…It could only be divided into two acres was the smallest acreage you could buy. A lot of big dairies and horse ranches and stuff so that’s where we lived for the next, I think, ten years. I think it was…the kids, they were second and third grade when we moved back here and Ben just decided it was right after proposition thirteen went through and passed California and they were letting - proposition thirteen was cutting back on property tax because property tax and stuff were so high and then what happened was the crime rate went way up because there were so many drugs and whatever in California it got…and we decided… Wheelock: Now did you work then, during that time also? Campbell: Yeah, at Allgrove High school. Wheelock: So you went back there again. P.E.? Campbell: Yeah. So I taught P.E. then GED and then back to P.E. and then one day he said, “We need to get out of here while the kids are little because you can’t take kids away from California when they get in high school. It’s not fair to them. So if you’re going to move you got to move while they’re young enough.” So I said, “Okay. You go find a place and I will take care.” Because we had a ranch there and we had raised horses, raised quarter horses so we rode all the time 5 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 and did all of this. Ben was working at the school district and then he was working for the sheriff’s office at night and then he got back into doing jewelry then so he was working like three jobs. Wheelock: What about his judo? Campbell: He still coached the armed forces team and stuff when we were in Allgrove. It just kind of phased out of Judo, you know. It had just been a part of his life for so long that and that’s when he really got back into doing jewelry. I said, “You just go and find a place.” So he was headed to Codey, Wyoming and I said, “Well at least just look at Durango.” Because it would be just right across the mountain from my folks and my family and so we’d be close enough where I could go and, you know. He went to Santa Fe, no he went to intertribal, Gallup intertribal, and then there was two weeks in between it and Santa Fe Indian market and he had a trailer with his shop set up in this trailer and he met Jimmy Keen, that lived in Ignacio and who was a jeweler at intertribal and he said, “Do you want to just come up and stay in that area for a while and look around between it and Santa Fe Indian market instead of going, you know. So Ben did. He got to Ignacio and the tribe, when they found out he was there, they wanted him to run Sky Ute Downs horse center and so Ben said, “Well I’m in Ignacio, Colorado.” And I said, “Where in the world is Ignacio?” I had never heard of it and I’d lived in Colorado all my life. I said, “Okay.” This is in 1977, when he came back. So then Colin came back with him later… Wheelock: In third grade. Yeah he was in third grade and Shannon stayed with me because I was going to stay to sell our house and our place in California and do that and I think it was, it was in the fall because school had already started in California or here in Colorado when they came back. Ben took Colin over to Jeff Medina was the principal at the elementary school and he took them in there and it was kind of later in the day and so Jeff took Colin into Mrs. Keller’s class. Hellen Keller. Killer Keller. (laughs) Colin was always such a bright student. He was always way ahead of even though they started school they were a year younger than all of their classmates here because they started when they were four in California because their birthdays were October and the cut off was when we’re here the cut off was in September. That first six months, Colin and Ben lived in the camper in the back of a pickup, you know. They set it off down at 6 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Sky Ute Downs. Shannon and I came back out here on Thanksgiving that year because I was working in California. Colin just hated school and was having such a difficult time because every time he would do something the teachers would rip it up even though like on math he would just write the answers down because he just knew how to do it and didn’t want to go through the whole process of writing the whole problem down. (laughs) She would rip it up in front of the class. It was not a pleasant time for him. So when I came during thanksgiving I went to school and Jeff Medina, I said, “I want to have a meeting. He hates school and he’s always loved school.” So he had a meeting with me and Ellen Fromm and Helen Keller and Jeff Medina and Colin and I were there. Wheelock: Why was Ellen there? Campbell: Because she was the other third grade teacher. So he was going to move Colin into Ellen’s class, out of Keller’s class. The meeting was a little bit different. Hellen Keller, I said, “I can understand how kids are terrified of you.” She was very structured and big and tall. I said, “You scare me and I don’t even scare very easily. I can imagine what you did my little kid.” Jeff Medina told Colin, he said, “I’m going to put you in Mrs. Fromm’s class but that’s the only place I can move you. If you don’t work out there, there isn’t any place else to move you.” So then I was like, oh shoot. I came back during spring break and I went to parent teacher conference, Shannon and I came back out during spring break. I remember going into Mrs. Fromm’s room and going, “Oh, no.” Because Colin hadn’t complained anymore at all because, let me skip back, when Ben went to pick Colin up that first day, Mrs. Keller had given him a test and Jeff Medina had told her, “Just let him sit and get used to things, don’t be pushing work on him to start with.” So when Ben came in to pick him up she said, “He needs to be moved back to the first grade. All California kids are behind Colorado kids.” Ben said, “I think she had no idea who she was talking to.” Thinking that Ben was probably…I mean who knows what. (laughs) He said, “Well don’t you think it would be more fair to you and to the student, to Colin, to observe him for a while before you come to a decision like that?” Of course, that didn’t go over real well with her. She already had her mind made up. So then she picked on him the whole time. It was bad. I think that’s one thing that people don’t realize that if parents don’t stand up for your kids when, you know, somethings going on and you know that they were good students and did 7 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 really well and then all of a sudden hated school, you know there’s something. So when I came back spring break and I had to go to parent teacher conference with Mrs. Fromm and she said, “Well, all I can say is he needs to be moved up a grade, not back a grade. He is amazing.” After that I loved Mrs. Fromm from then on just this difference and I thought, just think of how many kids are ruined. Where they hate school from then on if parents don’t take the initiative to check out and see why they don’t like it because there are personality conflicts and there are personality conflicts with teachers and students. Whether you believe it or not, there are. Then Shannon and I came back after the end of the school year and we lived down at Sky Ute Downs, rented a trailer from Becky and Joe Sparks down there and Ben ran Sky Ute downs. We had bought fifty acres and then we’re building up on 334. I was in painting Ben’s office one day at Sky Ute and the Superintendent who was Harrig, I can’t remember what his first name was, he was the Superintendent of schools and I guess he heard that I had a teaching degree and so he said, when I was down there painting and he came in one day and he said, “I think I have a job for you.” And I said, “Well I don’t know that I want a job.” (laughs) So I thought, eh. (??29.25) So I applied and got the title math job at the high school and I started teaching at the high school. I taught there for three years, I think, up at the high school and then moved down to the elementary school. Wheelock: Why? Campbell: Because they dropped it at the high school, the title program I think, and they needed somebody down at the elementary. I had never taught at elementary because I was always at high school in California and then at Dals and stuff. That year, oh those cute little kids, how they hug on you and, you know, I got everything! My immune system really was built up after that. I never got sick anymore. (laughs) After all those. Wheelock: Oh I thought you were just going to say that you got everything just from the love. Campbell: Yeah, you did. So then taught there and then taught both at the elementary and the intermediate, went back and forth for twentythree years I worked in the school district. In the meantime, Ben was still doing his jewelry, he ran Sky Ute Downs for probably five years, maybe. Then we started the 4-H horse, 4-H club. Ben started it 8 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 before I got out here and then I took it over and Genie Whiteman and I did it, it was called Sky High 4-H club and it was a horse club. Went to state fair, had all of these kids that we taught them riding and we did the horse activities and then the next year we started another club that was called Wind Riders. Our club won state fair, first time ever in La Plata county that our 4-H had won. There was five on the team and there’s Colin and Shannon, and then Mark and Stacy Lawler and Mike Lawler was CEO of Community Hospital at that time, and then he had moved to Mercy and became the CEO of Mercy Hospital and then Chad Midcalf, Midcalf and the Karen and Chuck, she was with Blue Cross Blue Shield and then she became the, when Mike moved to Mercy from Community Hospital in Durango, he had her come and be the director of the foundation which she is still to this day. So it’s those five kids that won the state championship and nobody has ever matched it since or before so we still have our plaque. We went to horse shows after horse shows after horse shows. Our whole family rode so that was good. Then we got into politics by accident. Wheelock: How did that happen? Campbell: By accident and then we bought the Lee place, Russel Lee place that was right…bordered our place. It expanded our place to 115 acres. Wheelock: Now did you design your house that your now in? Campbell: Oh yes, we did. When we built our house, Melvin Haga, Melvin was the contractor and it was when, because we moved into our house in 1979 and we had seen these log homes in California, they were lodge pole pines from Montana, and Ben just always wanted a log. Our house, we were at Sky Ute Downs because we were down there all the time with the horses and Melvin Haega and June Haega and their whole family, Anita May, who teaches down here in Ignacio. He was the contractor and we were sitting in the bleachers and Ben said, “We want to build this house.” He wrote all what the cost would be, everything, on a paper towel. (laughs) Ignacio…It was so amazing. I remember when we were building because we were living in the trailer down at Sky Ute Downs and when Ben would go up to check on to see how they were doing because we had to put a road in, we had to do everything from scratch. 9 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Wheelock: Was there anything up there at all? Campbell: Not on that part of the building because we bought, Ross Raegan’s place but the only thing was the old barn by Wes Raegan’s was the only structure that was on the place. We decided to build our house right at the edge of our land where it wasn’t irrigated. So we had to build a road in from the county road and stuff. Melvin Haega was amazing. I don’t know if he hadn’t done very many log homes before but he said, “There is not any two square corners.” He had no idea of all of the fitting that you would have to do. So Ben went up there, I know, I mean he would go and check on them all the time and it was getting later in the fall and they would be all playing cards during their lunch time and Ben said, “Come on! When are we going to get this house?” And Melvin said, “I thought you moved back here to slow down.” And Ben said to Melvin, “Yeah, but not to stop.” (laughs) Our whole life here Melvin was always, because he went, kept his contract right to the penny that he had written down on the paper towel. I think I still have it somewhere. It was just thinking, wow, it’s too bad things aren’t like that today. Then we put our big barn, a Quonset Hut that was 300 feet long and 75 feet wide and they had to bring it in with cranes and they had to do half at a time all the time because they tried bolting it all together and then lifting it up but because it weighed so much. All of the people around here, the ranchers and stuff would say, “in the first big snow storm that comes, that buildings going to collapse.” It was going to totally collapse or the first big wind storm it just…well it’s still there, the snow doesn’t even stay on it, it just slides off. Sounds like an avalanche when you’re inside when there’s a lot of snow and when it stars sliding… Wheelock: Is that where Ben’s man cave is? Campbell: No. We had a riding arena in there for the horses. Wheelock: I remember Libby telling me about it. Campbell: Yeah, everything was for the horses, you know, that we did for a lot of years. Wheelock: So how long did you live in the trailer before Campbell: I moved back here in 1978, I think it was. We came after, it was in the spring I think, Shannon and I did, because Colin and Ben were already here because it was that spring that I was helping Ben, I 10 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 was painting his office. Then we moved into our house in 1979 so I started teaching in the fall of ’78 here. Jackie Morlen and I and Mary Lou Joseph and Bert was teaching… Wheelock: Environmental Ed? Campbell: Environmental Ed and Mary Jo whatever her last name was, I don’t know if they were with BOCES or if they were with what program. Jackie Morlen, that’s the one in Bayfield. Yeah, Jackie started teaching the same year I did at the high school. Wheelock: Here in Ignacio. Campbell: Then Ben kept doing his jewelry and he quit down at Sky Ute Downs and just concentrated on doing his jewelry works and went to show all over the country and one everywhere and developed his name. He had before we left California but really pushed it. Then one day, Dotty Brown, I don’t know if you remember Dotty Brown? Wheelock: I remember a Dotty but I’m not sure what the last name was. Campbell: She was pretty involved, she got involved in school activities and school stuff. Her son, what was his name? Travis? She had an only son. Anyway she called and wanted to know if Ben would go to the central committee meeting in Durango for the Democratic party. I was like, “I don’t think so.” (laughs) I don’t think so, you know. We had a plane at that time so we were going to go to Aspen or something for the day, fly over. It was storming. Wheelock: Does Ben fly? Campbell: He got his piolets and I soloed. Wheelock: Oh really? Wow. I’m impressed, Linda. Continue. Campbell: We were going to go over to Aspen for the day and then he thought, maybe I’ll just go to that meeting down at the fairgrounds for the Democratic party. Because Al Brown had been the sheriff or he was the sheriff but he had graduated from San Jose State in California where Ben graduated from. Ben said, “I’ll go down there and support him.” They were looking for people to run for the fiftyninth district for the state of Colorado. Don Whalen of Fort Lewis college, he was running as a Republican and so nobody wanted to run against him. Ben had gotten up and spoke about Al Brown because he’s a really good speaker and so when they kept asking people if they would run for the fifty-ninth, he said everybody had a 11 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 reason why they wouldn’t. I’m too sick. I’m too busy. I’m too whatever. The last one standing on the floor was Ben and they said, “What about you?” And Ben said, “I don’t know. What do you have to do?” and they said, “Oh not much, we’ll do it all. We’ll help you.” “How much does it cost?” “Oh not much at all.” “Well…” he said, “Well…” Wheelock: Now had you gone to the meeting? Campbell: No, we were supposed to go to Farmington because we had some horses in training down there we were supposed to take some hay down and finally he came home and I said, “What in the world? I thought you were just going to be gone for (laughs)” and he said, “Guess what?” I said, “What?” He said, “I’m a candidate.” I said, “A candidate?! For what?” (laughs) He said, “For the fifty-ninth district state representative.” I said, “What do they do?” He said, “I don’t know.” I said, “How many of them are there?” “I don’t know how many.” And that night we went to our first event over in Pagosa and the next headline the next day: Dems announce surprise candidate. I’ve got all of the scrap books from Dave. Wheelock: Do you? Wow. Campbell: Yeah. Ann Brown called him up and she had been mayor in Durango and she said, “Do you need some help? Do you know what you’re doing?” “Heavens, I haven’t got a clue what I’m doing.” She said, “You need help?” He said, “Well yeah, I guess so.” So Ann, thank god for Ann, she became his campaign manager because she knew everybody around her. She lived here forever in Durango. She said, “First thing you have to do is you got to go talk to Sam Means, get his approval.” So Ben thought, okay and he went down there. Ben said, “What chance do you think I have?” He said, “You want to know what chance I think you have? You’ve got two chances, little and none.” (laughs) Wheelock: Now was he the lawyer here already? Campbell: For the tribe. Yeah. So Sam said, “Little or none.” Ben thought, well, that’s not going to happen but nobody knew he was a competitor. Nobody knew he went to the Olympic games, nobody knew, you know? They just thought he was…(laughs) Wheelock: So he was a surprise. 12 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Campbell: He was a surprise candidate, yeah. Colin and Shannon, they were little when he first got into politics. Then he won, beat Don Whalen who stayed a friend for the rest of his life. Wheelock: Don is a wonderful man. Campbell: They were great and it was a shock to him that he lost. I think because he had been everything. He was Fort Lewis, I think he was the interim president or president and the athletics and then he was on the airport commission. I mean, he had been everything that he should be before you run for office. (laughs) In fact, his Gary is still really close friends with us, his son. So then Ben went to Denver and I stayed and taught and took care of the ranch and took care of the kids and did all that. He was only gone six months or seven months; you know when they’re in session at the state legislature. So he would come back on weekends, fly up and fly back. Wheelock: It’s good that he got his pilot’s license. Campbell: Well he didn’t do that though. I mean he flew commercial because it’s too dangerous to fly private over these mountains because when you have to go you have to go. It’s not like you can say, “Nope, not going today.” So I kept teaching here. I think I was down in the elementary and intermediate school when he was first elected. I took care, we had cows, like fifty Brangus cows and calves and horses and the kids and the 4-H and teaching… Wheelock: Now did you have help with the ranch at all? Campbell: No. I didn’t. Wheelock: I’m impressed. Campbell: Jake Candelaria used to help me a lot. He would come and help do different, you know, with the cows and stuff. But no, pretty much on my own. Ben ran two terms and he was going to come home because it is a real hardship on a family that people have no idea. Then also on the state legislature there is no help. There’s a secretary for the pool of legislators but not individual so I would type his letters. It was before PC’s and so you’d get all the way through and then make a mistake and…It was awful, awful. When he first went in to office, I think it was ’83, 1983 there was no cell phones, there were no fax’s, there were no computers, you had to write a letter or call long distance to talk to your legislators because there was no other way. They didn’t pay much at all. I think he made 13 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 14,000, 15,000 or something. It was pretty low. But then we were making not very much teaching either. Wheelock: That’s the only thing you did pretty much was through your ranching. Campbell: Well yeah. It was hard. He was only going to do those two terms and then come home and then they talked him into running against Mike String for U.S. congress. He was in there already so he was an incumbent and so what the heck? (laughs) Oh my god. So we, because we would travel all the time, weekends I would go with them and help them and the kids would too, we did parades and all of this stuff and teaching all week and stuff for campaign and that year that he beat Mike String there were only five congressmen that beat incumbents, where incumbents were beat, Ben was one of them. Wheelock: Through your help. Campbell: Well, the whole family. There has to be somebody that takes care of everything here. Or you couldn’t do it. You can’t. So when you see J. Paul you need to thank him because, and Debbie especially. It’s a hardship. It’s a really, really hardship on families. Wheelock: But, like, with J. Paul, his boys are already big and he ran pretty much when they were already [cross talk 52.46] Campbell: They were out of school. They were out of school. [crosstalk 52.48] Wheelock: Compared to like you. Yeah. Campbell: Yeah because they were in elementary school. Wheelock: Deb really doesn’t work. Campbell: She works at the ranch but she doesn’t work outside of the home. Wheelock: So you’re definitely… Campbell: Everything. You’re everything. So then our political thing. He did three terms in the U.S. congress and was going to run one more term and then come home. I was listening to the radio at home, doing everything and I heard on the radio Tim Worth decided he was not going to run for U.S. Senate and I said, “Oh no.” My heart just, like, oh my god. Pretty soon I get a call, it’s Ben, he said, “I’m going to go for senate.” I said, “Okay.” He said, “Up or up.” We went from two-thirds of all of Colorado was the third congressional 14 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 district, you know in the state legislature it was six counties. It was San Juan, Archuleta, Montezuma, and La Plata. I guess it’s four counties. We had to travel all over the district all the time and go to events in those four counties which turned out to be not that big of a deal. Then when he ran for congress it was two-thirds of the state because the third congressional district takes up over two-thirds of the whole state from all of from Grand Junction as far to the Utah border to the New Mexico border, Arizona border, up to Pueblo. Colorado Springs isn’t in it but up through Pueblo. It’s a huge district driving and most places you had to drive because there’s not flights unless you chartered flights or something. It’s a commitment. Keeping up with that and doing that so then when he said he was running for senate I thought, oh my god, that’s the whole state. He announced and Terry Considine was the republican that was running and he’d been running for two years and this was in May or June that Tim Worth decided he wasn’t going to run so it didn’t leave much time from June to November. Wheelock: Now what year was this? Campbell: He ran for state rep was from ’86 to ’92 and then he ran in ’92 for U.S. senate. He was there from ’92 to 2005. Wheelock: And you were still doing all of this? Campbell: I was doing everything. We still had to 4-H going for a long time plus we were breeding horses because we were raising quarter horses, show quarter horses and stuff. When he ran for senate, the minute I heard that Tim Worth wasn’t going to run on the radio I was just like, “Oh no, they’re going to get him to run.” I just knew it and I was like, “Oh my god. Why can’t we just stay in something that’s easy for a while?” Because once you’re in it’s, and you develop all of these relationships and you develop all of this constituents, you know, it’s much easier than going through the whole thing. Anyway, he ran and we went, I would haul, he rode Scamp who was Colin’s horse, that big black and white paint that you see [cross talk 57.49] I would haul him to Grand Junction to all of these parades so Ben could ride him in the parades because he was such an image and stuff. Pretty much did it all. Hauled that horse over Red Mountain, all of these passes, all the time. Sometimes, the kids were like junior high when he first got into the senate or they might have been like freshman, eighth and ninth grade or something. Sometimes they would go with me and sometimes I would just go by myself and haul 15 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 them over to Montrose and Grand Junction and up to Pueblo and all over the state and teaching. Wheelock: Yes, yes, and a very good teacher at that. Campbell: Teaching and taking care of the ranch and doing everything. I think when he first ran for senate Ann Swing, Ann was the principal. Ann and I had grown up in Montrose. Wheelock: You were next door neighbors right? Campbell: Well her husband, Larry Swain, his folks lived right across the street from my folks. Ann had lived down the block in Montrose so her husband’s folks were really close friends with my folks. Wheelock: And so she lived just right there, so they were like childhood sweethearts then? Campbell: Yeah, they had gotten married before she got out of high school. Wheelock: Oh, okay. Really? Campbell: Yeah. Wheelock: Did she go to the same college as you? Campbell: They got married and they had kids and then she went back to college after the kids were grown. Wheelock: Well that’s remarkable too. Campbell: She went to Western State, yeah, she did. Larry might have gone but I know Ann didn’t because she had kids to take care of and stuff. Wheelock: By the time she moved here… Campbell: She was divorced and… Wheelock: Her kids were already grown. Campbell: Yeah her kids were grown when she moved back here because I hadn’t seen her for years when she moved back here and she was the principal and then we became really close friends because in the mean time we started riding Harleys. Wheelock: That’s right, I forgot about, now tell me about your Harley. 16 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Campbell: I think it was in ’92 when after Shannon came up with this idea. She said, “Mom, if dad wins for senate, let’s get him a new Harley and take it out on the stage.” He had ridden bikes forever and I had ridden, well I’ll have to bounce back to…when he won senate, then we got him the big dresser of Harley. I rode behind him for a while. He had taught me how to ride dirt bikes in California. He had couple little Hondas in the parking lot at the Judo club. I think we were married, he was teaching me how to ride them and there were these great big trees at the end of the driveway and on these streets so I went (driving sounds) right in the tree the first big thing. Well, it didn’t hurt me though…(laughs) but then we rode those. I took him up in the foothills in California and we rode them all the time, these dirt bikes. We just rode them everywhere and did all that stuff. So, I’d ridden but never on a street bike. I rode with Ben and he decided, well Shannon, she had to been sixteen or seventeen then because, in ’92, because he got us a bike that we were going to share, Shannon and I. So we went up, sportster, black sportster, that we had to take the rider safety class so we went up to community college Denver, in Denver, not sure what the name of it, and took this class, both Shannon and I did. That was the first time I’d ridden a street bike, you know, and they’re pretty powerful. Then we rode all the time and then Ann start…when she was teaching here I said, “Ann you ought to get a bike and you can go riding with us.” Colin had bought a bike out in California. He had graduated, he was at GIA, he had graduated from Fort Lewis and he found this bike of one of his students that also were at GIA that lived in Japan or somewhere and wanted to sell it. He had it shipped back here and then he taught Ann how to ride it. So Ann started riding. Wheelock: She didn’t have to take the class? Campbell: Oh yeah, she took the class. She rode with us for years, we rode everywhere. Then we started Harley Angels. (laughs) Did that… Wheelock: You did all kinds of… Campbell: Maneuvers, yeah. Wheelock: That was fun to see. You guys were good. Campbell: Yeah, we were good. (laughs) The bike whole world was another whole thing but anyway, then after Ben was elected to senate he was the grand marshal of the Rose Bowl parade in ’92. He and 17 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Colin hauled the horse all the way to Pasadena for the Rose Bowl parade, for the grand marshal. That was one of the really fun things, you know what I mean? One thing, there was a lot of sacrifices but there was some good things too. Just going to the Rose Bowl and being part of that. Wheelock: Now did you ride your horse also? Campbell: No, they had a buggy for us right behind them so we rode and the horse was covered with flowers and the kids both rode in it too and the whole family was. That was a really fun, fun great thing to do. Skip ahead to…bikes kept going. We kept going to more and more bike things and then he started the rally here in ’93 is the first poster I have. When he and Mike Lovato started the rally in Ignacio. It grew and grew until it was like 30,000 people. Wheelock: I even helped in that. Campbell: Yeah, Danny [crosstalk 1.07.03] used to pick up trash. Wheelock: He still does that. Campbell: Yeah, Danny with all of his space camp kids would do that. Started the rally here and some people were for it and some people were against it. Whenever you do anything but, to bring… Wheelock: Sure did bring a lot of income in. Campbell: Oh my gosh, I mean, just the amount of people it brought here and how Ignacio… Well when ben was running Sky Ute Downs too, skipping back a ways, we started these quarter horse circuits before he quit at the Downs he had the longest quarter horses circuit in the whole United States. It was nine days and it was just before the cutoff for points for world championship. People came from Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona; I mean they were from all over. It was three days, a break, three days, a break, three days, a break. They could get a lot of points for… The amount of things, I think, that we as a family brought in to this community was pretty significant. Wheelock: Oh I think so, I definitely do. Campbell: Just like the quarter horse thing never once we quit down there and once the kids were in 4-H, they stayed in it until high school. Then it all just kind of died back, unless you have somebody that’s really going to do it. And then the rally, they live up to huge thing and then…once we dropped out. 18 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Wheelock: It’s definitely not the same. Campbell: Never been the same, never been the same since. I think we haven’t contributed near like a lot of families that have been here their whole life but I was in Colorado my whole life. I think it was pretty significant, the different things that we got going. There was no horse 4-H club here until we started it. There was no quarter horse circuit here. And the rally and just different things like that. Wheelock: Well you were also a lobbyist. Can you… Campbell: After I quit teaching. Wheelock: Why did you decide to quit teaching? Campbell: Dare I say it? Wheelock: You don’t have to. You may do it. Campbell: Ben stayed in the senate, his first term and then he switched parties. Wheelock: That was hard on a lot of democrats. Campbell: Yeah but they need to get over it. (laughs) They need to get over it because the whole thing, it was just the extremes in both parties are wackos. Most people are right in the middle and Ben, as a Democrat when he was in the U.S. senate, they rate him from one to one hundred and he was always forty-eight to fifty-one, right in the middle, and he always won the women’s vote, the Hispanic vote, the minority vote. He always won labor. Then when he switched over, so he’s the first person in Colorado that ever switched parties and won in both parties. He won by the same percentage that he did, he won by over ten percent and he won the same groups of people. His voting record was always between forty-eight and fifty-one, as his rating. So the most extreme liberal which was, what was his name? I can’t remember. To Jessie Helms, to the far right. Party shouldn’t mean anything, I don’t think. I think it’s getting stuff done. When people get so hung up on parties, look what’s happening to the country now because of it. Everybody’s just worried about getting reelected that they are afraid to do anything. In all those years Ben got more bills passed than all of the former senators in the U.S. senate Colorado in history because he was able to work both sides. People are people. Doesn’t matter whether you are a democrat or republican. Wheelock: When you quit teaching… 19 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Campbell: I quit teaching. I should have taught at least twenty-five years, you know, I should have stayed longer. The reason I didn’t, it was after he won U.S. senate the second time, it’s because there were so many things I couldn’t do and Ann was always fabulous about, in fact when he first announced that he was running for senate and it was all spur of the moment, they wanted me to come up to Denver to be with him for his announcement and I called Ann and Ann says, “Go.” At that time, I was still working at the elementary and Roy Lyons was there and he was an asshole about doing anything and yet I never took a day off sick leave, I never used any of my sick leave ever. He just instead of saying, Oh my god. Think of what that could have done to this district if he would have been, you know, think of what could have really happened for here. The same thing that Ben did for Mercy hospital and Fort Lewis college. It was just so short sighted and it was such a hassle to do anything. Ann said, “You go. We’ll figure it out. You just go.” So I called Roy and he just gave me all kinds of grief he said, “You’re going to be docked.” I said, “Are you kidding me? Don’t you even see the big picture?” I said, “Forget it, I’m not going.” So I didn’t go. It was just like oh my gosh, is this worth it? To stay here and work and not have the flexibility. It was Ed Cutslet though that set up the thing because he saw the value where Lyons was just… Wheelock: I’m glad it worked out though. Campbell: Ed and I are still great friends. He was just totally…anyway, we’re almost up to present time. I think one of the things…I was a sponsor for the U.S.S. Mesa Verde which was a really fabulous, it’s U.S. Navy warship which was really, really fun and fabulous to be able to be that because there’s not very many sponsors in the whole country of ships, warships especially. I was the one that christened it. I think I was still teaching then because…no, no because I was on the Fort Lewis board then. Ron Cross, he gave me a big bottle or something to use. Just to be able to do those kind of things and be part of it was neat and to be able to take off because we’ve traveled all over the world which I couldn’t have done if I had stayed teaching. There’s no way that I could have taken that much time off or been working for nothing. I retired or quit teaching I had like 180 sick days. Wheelock: That’s like me too. Campbell: So the benefit was to be able to travel. We went to Africa, we went to Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Russia, everywhere all over the world. 20 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Egypt, places that you wouldn’t really want to go today. To be able to go like we did, without going through security and all that. We always went on military flights and be able to meet the people, the Queen of England, all of these people and the opening of the NMAI that Ben was a sponsor for the National Museum of American Indian Museum. Just to do those kind of things made all this other work worthwhile. I love the kids and the kids… Wheelock: They loved you. Campbell: They come up all the time, “Oh, Ms. Campbell, Ms. Campbell.” In fact, we bought the bakery building and David Silva… Wheelock: I had him as a student. Campbell: I had him and I said, “You were a little shit. I believe in you and I’m miss, I’m going to give you a chance to do it.” He can do it and stuff and just to have those memories and the number of people around here that you know from teaching here and how they never forget you. I remember one incident, Thali Silva and Diane Waters, they were in my advanced math class when I working with you, I worked with you a lot. We worked really well together. Wheelock: I think so. Campbell: I think so too, but they kept saying, “Ms. Campbell, Ms. Campbell, can we come home with you and stay with you for a while?” I said, “After spring break.” This was in the fall. (laughs) Then they said, “Ms. Campbell, spring break’s coming up, after can we come stay with you?” I said, “Well, you have to get notes from your mom, you have to do this, you have to do that.” Thinking they wouldn’t do it. The day I said, “Oh my gosh.” They said, “Okay, we’re ready to come stay.” I said, “Well, we have a faculty meeting down at the district office, you’ll have to come down and get my Jeep.” I had a little jeep. When I came out of that meeting, they were there. I thought, oh my gosh. I took them out on the four-wheelers, we were feeding cows, we were doing all of this stuff. Thali still talks about it all the time, every time I see her she talks about it. And now Mahvish (?) is always saying, “Oh my god.” I just think it’s so sad… Wheelock: I talked to the grandmother of Thali and Dianne Waters and she said that that’s one of the highlights of Thali’s life. One of the wonderful times. 21 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Campbell: Yeah, because what’s-her-name was the counselor in there, she told me, Dianne Waters, that she had her and she said that Dianne, because I guess she moved to Durango after or something, and said that too. I think, what a shame our society is getting so bad that if I thought to do something like that now, oh my god, the liability, everything. Dianne stayed there the whole week, I never ever heard from her mom. I’d take her to school and Thali, her mom only let her stay three nights, I think. She said, “You can’t. You’ve got to come home.” I said, “She’s fine. She’s fine.” I think, what a shame that you can’t do that and you can’t hug kids. I would be hesitant to pick up a kid walking along this road now and isn’t that awful? It is awful that they’ve gotten to that far being such a, you know, protective where kids don’t have experience because I remember in first grade, Mrs. Hanes was my first grade teacher and she had this long bobsled and she would load up all of her first graders every year and drive them around the streets in Montrose behind her car, pulling them on that sled and I remember that as if it was yesterday. I mean just what a fabulous memory to have something like that, a teacher would do that with you. Wheelock: Well, my trips when I used to take the kids to Albuquerque and we even saw the Ice Capades. It was wonderful. Campbell: I know, I know. It’s fabulous and kids never forget it. You don’t forget it. Wheelock: Well I know you’ve been a wonderful influence. Campbell: I don’t know about that but… Wheelock: I do. Campbell: I think this community is pretty amazing and the people in it are, because when we first were going to buy here the realtors did not want to show us property, or show Ben because I was still in California, property out here. They said, “You don’t want to live out there. You don’t want to. You want to live in Durango.” He said, “No, I think we want to live out here.” I think, if people even got to know this community like it is, it is so amazing and it’s so great and then the people in it are so wonderful. Now, I wouldn’t want to do business with the town anymore though, after what David went through. That was a horrible experience, I would never buy property in town again to have to deal with the harassment and stuff that we went through, that David went through opening a business here but 22 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 that’s my only negative thing I’ve ever experienced in town. Well, because we live out of town but we also have another building here in town, an auto parts building which has never been an issue or hard to deal with. Wheelock: Is that the one with Chris May? Campbell: (Affirmative noise) So that’s my only negative thing that I would say. Wheelock: Well I don’t see you as a negative person at all so… Campbell: No. Just to go through that, I wouldn’t do it again. I figure it’s hard, it’s hard to own a business, it’s hard to open a business, our daughter has two galleries in Santa Fe and in Durango, Sorrel Sky, and just knowing what people go through that own their own business. Wheelock: Now, did she have as hard a time in opening a building there as David did here? Campbell: I don’t think so. Wheelock: Really? Campbell: Part of it was people didn’t want the competition and did everything they could to drive him broke. Wheelock: I’m worried about it just because right now I don’t see a lot of people there. Some days I do but, you know… Campbell: It’s pretty good [cross talk 1.25.49] Wheelock: I’m glad to hear that because we were so excited to see it open. And I ate breakfast, Rick and I ate breakfast there and it was wonderful. Campbell: The food has been great. Wheelock: The food is delicious. It really is. Campbell: It is really great. Wheelock: Big servings, I couldn’t even eat all mine. Campbell: Yeah. You have to take it home with you. When David came because I knew him when he was a kid, he and Daniel. I said, “Okay, I’m going to take a chance on you. Don’t prove me wrong.” 23 �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Linda Campbell Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: May 19, 2016 Wheelock: He’s a very good man I think. Campbell: And such a worker. When you see these kids that want to follow their dream and you don’t do everything you can to help them achieve that dream and then something’s wrong with the system. When you’d rather see them on welfare or getting food stamps instead of being a productive citizen and providing jobs and tax revenue for the town then something’s wrong. Something is wrong. Anyway, that’s that. That’s the end. Wheelock: Linda thank you so much, it has been wonderful and I’ve learned a lot. I’m glad I was able to get you because I know Ben is there but I think the women, there’s something about the woman… Campbell: And I got two awards. I got the Mara Lee Ballantine woman of the year award in Durango, through them, chamber of commerce in Durango, and then I got the extraordinary woman award from three of us from the woman’s resource. Wheelock: Well I can see, I’m glad, because you deserve it and thank you so much, I appreciate you doing this. Campbell: You’re welcome. [End of transcription] Transcribed by: Megan Chambellan July 6, 2017 Audit edit by: Final edit by: 24 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcript of Interview with Linda Campbell Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2017-08-06 Description An account of the resource The transcript of an interview with Linda Campbell conducted by Liz Wheelock at the Ignacio Community Library on Thursday, May 19th, 2016. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Campbell, Linda; Transcript https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/b21418dca45659a1e6631b31a07ac0f3.jpg e1e68a94b7f4ad7d3d76363417bfbc2e https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/2c9d488bd746621562cf3e5d402919f8.mp3 2bdc6648c0d2b1a800fcffbb2df3f2e7 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/1d3309cb13ba6b7604e332409ad4ec67.pdf 789f586a4ed9027d7914506bfa88cb42 PDF Text Text Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 My name is Liz Wheelock and I am conducting an interview for the Ignacio Oral History Project entitled, “Voices of the Ignacio” at the Ignacio Community Library on February 5, 2016. I have with me the namesake of the McClanahan Community Room and a volunteer of the library, who has graciously permitted me to interview her. Please tell me your name, your birth date and how you came to live in Ignacio, Colorado. McClanahan: My name is Jean McClanahan and my birthdate is May 2, 1924. I was born in Ignacio. Wheelock: How did your family come to move here? McClanahan: My grandparents came here from Missouri in 1904. Wheelock: That is wonderful and what brought them here? McClanahan: I really don't know. They just wanted a change I guess. I’ve heard it was my grandmother's health and one person said she had lost her first born child and she was so depressed that grandpa thought a change would be good but why Ignacio I have no idea. Wheelock: And where did they settle? McClanahan: Right here. Wheelock: In the town of Ignacio? McClanahan: 2 miles north of Ignacio that's where I live. Wheelock: Oh my goodness! So you are on the homestead? McClanahan: I live on part of it. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: Did they have a lot of land? What did they do? McClanahan: They farmed. They bought it and had already been homesteaded. They bought the land. They bought a hundred and 20 acres bordering the reservation, later they added 80 acres more across the road to the County Road and 5 acres of that was the school but they bought the other 75 acres. So he had quite a bit of land. Wheelock: Did they raise cattle? McClanahan: No, I don’t think they raised any cattle just hay and grain. I am sure he had milk cows, but as far as cattle, I don't think so. Wheelock: So did you go to school in Ignacio? What was school like? McClanahan: We learned everything; not only reading writing and arithmetic but we learned oral hygiene. We learned stuff like that. We had to keep our fingernails clean and brush our teeth and that kinda stuff. We learned the names of our teeth. You know, first and second grade. Wheelock: What was your childhood like before you started school? McClanahan: I don't remember much about it. We lived on the farm. I remembered we went to a country school up there. It was on the corner of my granddad's land. Evidently, it was easier to get to school here than it was to go there and it was about the same distance. They used that country school for all kinds of things: dances, box suppers, pie socials and evangelists would come through. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 They just used it for everything. I think everybody attended everything because that was their social life. Wheelock: Do you have brothers and sisters? McClanahan: I had three brothers. Wheelock: Older? Younger? McClanahan: One older, two younger. Wheelock: Are they here also? McClanahan: No, one just passed away. The oldest passed away 20 years ago. My other brother is in Cincinnati where his son lives. Wheelock: Let's go back to school. Let's talk about first and second grade. You went to school at the elementary school at the end of the block? McClanahan: Well you’ve seen the pictures of the old school, the tall building. Half of the building was stone blocks and the other half was stucco. It was two-story and went 3rd through 12th. 1st and 2nd grade-we had another building, it was… 1st and 2nd grade was in one half of it. The other half Mrs. Leonard taught Spanish kids to speak English. Wheelock: Where was it located? McClanahan: Right here on this property… no, not here- across the road where the other school was on that property. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: So they tore down that property and put a school that we now have there which is now a Community Center. Well, that is interesting. So even K-12 was there? McClanahan: No kindergarten. It was 1st through 12th. Wheelock: You went to school there also, right? What kind of sports and what kind of things did they have in high school there? McClanahan: I did not go to high school here. When I finished eighth grade my dad was working for the government and they transferred him to Towaoc, so I graduated from high school in Cortez. Wheelock: Did you notice any change when you came back? McClanahan: Well, not much. I came back about 10 years later. I think. Of course some change but it was still a small town. Wheelock: Was it still the School like it was before? So when did that change? McClanahan: I think they built the new Junior High. They built it first and Mr. Palmer made the bricks for that school. He made them right up close to where the Patio is now. I don't remember, my brother was 36, I believe it was in the late 50s when they built the Junior high and then Mr. Deeds came. Can find out when he was here in the 60s. Around 1965 they built it the high school and it was still the elementary, down here. They tore down the old building put the new elementary down there. That must have been about… about 1960. Because… Cindy was one of the… it was pretty new when Cindy started, they had �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 kindergarten. Cindy was born in ‘57 so it would’ve been about 62 or early 60s. Wheelock: Did you meet Butch here? McClanahan: I came back here. I was working at the store. He was a butcher at the store and I got a job at the store. Wheelock: A buddying romance? McClanahan: We worked together for many many years. Wheelock: You didn't own it at that the time? McClanahan: No, we didn't buy it till 1965. We both worked there for 20 years before we bought it. Wheelock: And who was the owner of that at that time? McClanahan: Mr. Lunsford. Wheelock: Okay. McClanahan: He was the one that started it as a locker plant and then he added groceries. He gradually added more and more. Wheelock: What did you do? McClanahan: I was a bookkeeper. I had gone to business school. Wheelock: So from 12th grade you went to school in Cortez. You said in Cortez, then you went to college? McClanahan: I went to Barnes Business School. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: And where was that? McClanahan: Denver. Wheelock: In Denver, and how many years was that? McClanahan: Just one. Wheelock: Then you came back here? Was there a reason? McClanahan: My folks had moved back here by then. Wheelock: Were they retired? McClanahan: No, Dad got transferred back over here. Wheelock: And that's when you met Butch? And when did you get married? McClanahan: Oh, we got married and ‘53 but we didn’t start dating for a while. He had another girlfriend and I had another boyfriend. Wheelock: (laughs) And you bought the place? Were you already married? How did that come about? McClanahan: Yes we were married. We had been married for 12 years. We married in ‘53. We had been married for 13 years and Mr. Lunsford tells us he's not feeling very good and he wants to go to a lower altitude. And he wanted to sell it and we worked for him for so many years. He could see that we would make a success of it. So he sold it to him and gave us a good deal. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: And you've had it... that's a wonderful place! McClanahan: Yes we loved it. We got up every morning till late at night. We like that store. Wheelock: What did you and Butch do when you were first married? What were the pleasures that you did for enjoyment? McClanahan: We were good friends with a couple. We played cards with them. Went to dances on Saturday night. We went to their place for dinner and they went to our place for dinner. You know we had a good relationship with them. Wheelock: Was a train still going through at the time? McClanahan: No, it quit about 1959. Wheelock: Had you seen it in your early years? Did you ever ride it? McClanahan: No, I never did. I don't know why, I just never did. Didn’t have an occasion to. We always had a car. We went to Durango and I never had any reason to go to Durango other than with me parents. My grandparents lived in there- one set of my grandparents lived there. My mother’s family, so I never had any occasion. But, it was here and it was good. We read the old newspapers. They shipped a lot of freight out here, a lot of grain; a lot of sheep, a lot of cattle, a lot of stuff went out here, turkeys. Allison had a turkey co-op and they shipped their turkeys out of here, clear to New York! Wheelock: Oh my goodness, did your friends come here using the train? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: Not for us, but a lot of people did come in. The salesmen that came into the stores that showed their wares. They had their little suitcase and they used to come on the train. And, there were two or three… at least two, all the time, hotels. Wheelock: Where were the hotels? I remember the one over here at the casino. McClanahan: At that time, where the SUCAP building is, that was one. The other one was down close to the hardware is now, where the motorcycle shop is now and there was one up at the agency. Before that, the agency was here first. I think there was a hotel up there, too. Wheelock: Where they full? McClanahan: Yeah, they were busy. Evidently, but they burned. One of them was a commercial hotel and the other one was the Ignacio Hotel, but the commercial hotel burned in 1937. I think it was, just before we moved to Towaoc, because my dad helped clean up the mess. Wheelock: Were you here when they decided not to have the railroad? Do know why the railroad left? McClanahan: I think the trucking got to be a thing, and it was quicker. The train was slow. I think you could ship things out by truck a lot more quicker. That's my idea. I don’t know? Wheelock: Do you think it hurt the economy here at all? McClanahan: Well, I don't know. I think it caused some things. I am thinking it might have a little bit. I think about all the �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 stuff that they hauled down here and that the train wrecked a lot. I don't know. It seemed like a lot to me, every once in awhile the kids would put something on the rail, probably some are like that. Wheelock: (laughs) Do you have any memories of the train as far as you can think about concerning the train? McClanahan: No. Wheelock: What about when the gas line came, were you here when that came about? Would you like to elaborate on that? McClanahan: Well, I don't know too much about it. I remember the first from reading the old newspapers. Way back then they wanted people to lease their land to explore, to drill some gas but they never did get enough people to sign up. So they never did for years and years but there was one story about the Ritter's: They had put well down and I guess the gas came out of it and when he came home, he had a little too much to drink and she wouldn’t let him in the house and he went out there and lit that gas to stay warm! Wheelock: (laughs). McClanahan: But I remember, I don't know what year it was, they drilled a deep well, in my mind, it seems like it was where the houses are near Cedar Point, they drilled a real deep well and it was an exploration well, and very so often they took a test to see what was down there. It took a long time to drill that they went down a mile or more. It took a very long time. A lot of people that came in with it, the �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 roughnecks… They brought a lot to the economy. I think that was the first I remember. Wheelock: Do you feel they really helped the economy here? McClanahan: At that time they did. Yeah, they brought in all these people they rented houses and they bought groceries. And the wells, they had to have something they used in the wells, I can't remember what it was. Some of the people worked for them (some product), so it was good for them but it didn't last. I don't know how long it was before they came back and they kept drilling and everything. It was several years, I think. Wheelock: Now Williams Gas and Oil was in that area there, do you know when or how that came about? McClanahan: I don’t know. Wheelock: What do you miss most about what it used to be? McClanahan: I don't know, just the pace. And everybody today you know…of course, when we had to store I knew everybody. Today, none of those people are still around. It’s all new people, and I don’t know very many and that’s what I miss. It always just thrills me when I go to store and I run into people I still know and they'll give me a big hug and we’ll just visit a little while and I really like that. Wheelock: What are you the most proudest of in your life? McClanahan: I don't know, my kids! My kids all graduated from Ignacio High School. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: Can you tell me some stories about the kids growing up here, and the changes you have seen? McClanahan: We all walked to school. They all walked to school. We lived up on the hill. Wheelock: Candelaria Heights? McClanahan: No, up where… next to Donna Young. So our kids walked to school -- I walked to school. I walked about 2 miles, once in awhile; we’d get a ride. I tell everybody that especially in the wintertime, me and my little brother (that's not very good language) my little brother and I, if we’d get out from the house down her lane, down to the highway, down to the county road there was a guy that lived just up the road up another mile. He took his daughter to school. And if we’d get out there in time, he would give us a ride. I don't think his daughter liked that very well, because it was a pickup and those old pickups weren't very big, so we’d squeeze me in and him on my lap. But he just didn't have the heart to pass us up. (the driver) Wheelock: We had people like that too! What were the roads like and that sort of thing? McClanahan: They weren't very good. I don't know when we first got gravel, but the road used to come down the hill through the pasture behind, came down right in the middle of the Justice Center Building, you know where that street comes out from the Justice Building, that went straight up the hill and there used to be a low spot in there and people got stuck. They used to have to get out and push, so they weren't very good for a long time; then they �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 got graveled. I don't know when they finally got pavement. The gravel was really good. Wheelock: How about your classmates, what do you remember about your classmates? McClanahan: They were all nice. They were good kids. Wheelock: Any stories you can tell? McClanahan: Well, I remember hearing this story, my cousin was ornery than the dickens and he had a friend that was just as ornery and the Sanchez girls told us that they rode horseback to school, and they’d tie up their horse. During the day, sometime, these boys would go out and aggravate the horse and they’d go and tie that knot so tight that those girls couldn't get them undone! Wheelock: How old were they? McClanahan: Grade school! Wheelock: Did a lot of kids ride horses? McClanahan: They did in those days. I did the first year or two my brother. I didn't like riding with him because he was ornery too. First, I was real little and I’d sit in the saddle with him and he'd squeeze me, so then, I sat behind, and he and Bonnie Kent and had Ida behind him and they rode a horse to school. Donald and Bonnie would have to have a race, and Ida and I was sitting behind hanging on! (laughs) Wheelock: (laughs)Did you win? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: I don't remember (laughs) Wheelock: When did you ride the horses? McClanahan: Just a couple years then I didn't like it, so I said I'd rather walk. Wheelock: You were starting to tell me about your kids and some of the memories that you have of them? McClanahan: I don't remember too much. Judy was a whiz she studied. She got good grades. So they all did all right with grades. I don't know, the kids, Cindy was a cheerleader and Dale wrestled. Greg played basketball and I can’t remember what else? A lot of school activities, they were all in all of them. Wheelock: Did you also go to school with them and help them out? McClanahan: I tried to go to all the games and everything. Shirley Waters was working at the store and her son Dan who’s the same age as Dale and they were playing football, and I remember we took off one day and went to watch them play over in Dulce. So I tried to watch them when I could. Wheelock: Did you leave the store often? Did you take vacations? McClanahan: Not very often, if we did, it would be in February because that was our slow time that was when we got married, in February. Then, during the slow time, we took a trip once. Butch had a sister, whose husband was in the Air Force and they were in Texas. They were in Mobile, Alabama. We took a trip down there to see them. One time we went to San Antonio and took a trip there but �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 that was later, way later. I had a brother who was in New Jersey and we took a trip back to see him. That was about the only trips we took. Wheelock: Did you go to Vallecito, Navajo Lake? McClanahan: We used to go up there all the time. We’d go waterskiing, fishing, and we went to Navajo. Wheelock: Were you here when they made Navajo Dam, can you tell me a little bit about that? McClanahan: We used to go down there on Sunday and take a picnic lunch and see what was going on, just kind of keeping track of it. It was interesting. Wheelock: They had a town; they actually got rid of Rosa and that sort of thing. Did you know any of the people there that were displaced? McClanahan: No. Now Rosa was actually in New Mexico, and it was quite a town. I kept telling everybody, the people that drank, Colorado was a dry state, they couldn’t get liquor here, so they would go over to Rosa and get their liquor. And I thought it was legal but I talked to Ed Marquez the other day and he said, “No it was moonshine they got over there!” (laughs) Wheelock: I wonder who was making it? McClanahan: Well, probably several people. (laughs) Wheelock: Well, when they got rid of that, where did he get the alcohol then? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: Well, by that time you could buy it here. I saw on one of the papers that people had voted down making Colorado wet. It said it won't be wet until we vote on it, and we never did vote on it. I’m sure, they just decided it was all right to buy it here. They just made it legal- I don’t know who did. Wheelock: When did it come into this area, or do you know? McClanahan: Well, I don't know just when it was. Wheelock: How do you think… were the relations pretty good with that? McClanahan: Oh yeah, everybody got along. The city had an unwritten agreement, just an oral agreement with the Spanish people. Most of the Spanish people lived south of … I don’t know what that street is- not the bank the one next down, down after the bank.... Wheelock: Browning? Goddard? McClanahan: The street that went across. I don’t know whether it was Navajo or Pine, one of those streets. Most of the Spanish people lived down there. They had some that were really interested in politics and took part but the city had an unwritten agreement that they had six on their council, and three would be white and three would be Spanish and that’s just the way everybody voted. You know, just because that was the thing to do! Wheelock: That was wonderful, they did that! Did you know how that came about? McClanahan: Well, I don't know? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: Was the government that way right in the beginning? McClanahan: Well, I don't know whether it was or not. I don't know? Just the people. Everybody was interested in the city and things that went on. They didn't have any trouble getting a mayor or people in the council because people were interested. They wanted to do things for the town and wanted to be right and they were willing to do that. You know, they didn't get paid; I don’t think any of them ever got paid in the old days. Wheelock: How are the relations with the tribe also? McClanahan: I think they got along well. I don't remember them having any problems. We had a lot of people that worked up at the agency that were government employees that were white people. I don't know… just everybody got along. Wheelock: Did you enjoy school? You said you enjoyed school. How do you think your classmates would remember you? McClanahan: (laughs) I don’t know. Wheelock: You were such a pillar of society in this community. McClanahan: Well, not in those days- we didn't even live in town. We lived 2 miles out of town. We could never vote on the council or anything. We could never participate… the Lions Club came and went a time or two. A lot of the people that joined the Lions Club… then it kind of petered out somehow or rather then one day somebody would come in and was gung ho, and they’d have a Lions Club �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 again. They were real active- they had an Odd Fellows that was the first part of the Shur Value locker plant. It was the odd Fellows Hall building. They built that. I think It was an Adobe building. Wheelock: I know when my in-laws lived here. Martin and Irene Wheelock, that was in the 50s and I remember Rick talking about the dances and square dances and I think they were also part of the Lions Club and that sort of thing. Do you recognize the name or anything like that? McClanahan: I had seen that name (that Wheelock name) and then I wondered, “If he was related to him?” Wheelock: It was Irene Wheelock, and she was Finnish. Did Butch live here? McClanahan: Butch lived here. He was born in Montrose. Wheelock: Can you tell me a little bit about him? McClanahan: He lost his dad when he was about 13, when he, I think just finished his junior year in high school and one day, it was in summer and he and his friends were loafing around town and Lester Lunsford came along and he said, “Do you boys want a job?” “Oh yeah!” Butch, he always had a job, even when he was young, he worked at the theatre, delivering papers, delivering doughnuts. They said. “Sure!” Lester was working for a lawyer who had sheep and he had his sheep up on Mount Wilson. I don't know how to tell you where it was, by Slick Rock. Wheelock: I've heard the name. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: It's up by Dove Creek. Wheelock: By Naturita? McClanahan: Somewhere in that area he was taking care of these sheep and he needed some help. When school came he worked for them. Butch didn't want to go back. He liked it there and the other kid must’ve of gone. Wheelock: And how old was he at the time? McClanahan: He was a junior. Wheelock: About 16 or 17? McClanahan: So Lester worked there a couple years and they were good friends. He was kind of proud, a father figure to him and Oakley was Lester's brother, and he just opened his locker plant and needed a butcher and Lester was a butcher, but he had lost an eye. He had a glass eye and, of course, he was very self-conscious of it and that was when he went to hills with the sheep. In a couple years later, about that time he got used to it, he was ok with it. He came to Ignacio to help Oakley in the butcher shop and he brought Butch with him. He never left. Butch worked around the theater. He did everything there. Wheelock: Now the one here or in or over Montrose? McClanahan: No, the one in Montrose. The theater here was for sale, so Lester said, “You come with me and we’ll buy that theater and you can run it!” By the time they got here someone else bought it, so he became a butcher instead. Wheelock: So that sounds wonderful! So you guys met! �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: His name is Bruce and I never asked Butch how he got his name. How he got his nickname Butch. I suppose he always had it. Someone told me, when Lester ran into these boys and they asked him what’s your name? My name's Bruce, but they call me “Fats!” but “ Well, I'm gonna call you Butch” and that’s how he got Butch. Butch didn’t tell me that, but it sounds like it might've been true. I don't know. Wheelock: Was Butch's mother alive still? McClanahan: Yes, she was 96 when she died. Wheelock: Still in Montrose? McClanahan: Same house she lived in a long time, not all of he life. They came out from Ohio to the Montrose area from Ohio. Wheelock: How did his father pass away? McClanahan: He had a perforated ulcer. He was working down in reservation. He was a carpenter and he was working down in the Navajo Reservation, out in the boonies and when this happened. They took him into Window Rock or Gallup or someplace. But it took them too long to get to there and they couldn’t save him. Wheelock: Was his wife with him at the time? The family? McClanahan: They were living in Winslow. He was only 40 something. Wheelock: What was she doing when that happened? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: Well, when that happened, she had no skills. They moved back to Montrose because this was where they still had a house there. She went to work for the school lunch program as a cook and later she worked at the hospital as a cook. She got a very small pension, 35 dollars from his veteran’s pension, the kids helped out. She needed a new refrigerator. We pooled our resources and bought her a refrigerator. I remember the different things we bought for her. She had an old coal stove. It was thing in the basement where you stored the fire furnace. It made her house dirty. I remember she’d clean and the walls. She had paper walls. She would have this pink stuff to clean and the walls. She was quite a lady, a wonderful person! I loved her a lot! Wheelock: She still lived there instead of coming here? How many children did she have? McClanahan: She had four. She lost one when he was very small. So she just had three of them. She had a sister, older. She had a sister who is older and still living in Montrose. She's 93, I guess. She had a younger brother and he passed away. I think about 10 years ago. So Butch died on October 11, 1990. His mother passed away six years later on the same day or two days earlier, on October 9th and his brother passed on the October 9th, six years later after that. Isn't that odd? The sister is kinda worried about that last one but she’s still here!(laughs) Wheelock: Now was Butch ever in the military? McClanahan: No, he had varicose veins real bad. They wouldn't take him. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: What are some of the lessons you learned in your life? What are some of things you feel are good that you want to tell us about? McClanahan: I don't know! Relax! Don't get in a hurry! Wheelock: You know people are pretty much in a hurry. McClanahan: And here, people are in such a big hurry, that's when I stopped driving to Durango. People are just in too big of a hurry. What are they going to do there, in a hurry, they run reds lights. Wheelock: What was Durango like? McClanahan: It was kind of a small town. My grandparents lived there. We’d go in on Saturday, and visit with them, do any shopping we needed to do, and sometimes you get to eat lunch at the Mandarin Café and sometimes grandma’s would fix lunch for us. There was a card table out there. We'd play cribbage with them and the house was always hot and now I understand. Wheelock: Did they use coal? McClanahan: I think they had gas in there. My mother's brother just lived two doors down from them and kind of took care of them. They needed anything, we would visit with them too and Thanksgiving, we’d get together with them. Mom's twin sister lived up the road about a mile from us, so on Sundays most of the times we’d get together. In the summer, on the Fourth of July we started eating fried chicken. We always got baby chicks just barely big enough by the Fourth of July. We started when they were little and they got too big. We hadn’t any way of freezing �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 them back then, so every Sunday we had fried chicken. We either went to their house or they came to our house and sometimes uncle Charlie would come out and it was just nice. Wheelock: Sounds like it was a good life! McClanahan: It was! Wheelock: When you and Butch got married, could you tell me a little about your ceremony and how was it different from what was going on now? McClanahan: We just went to the preacher and got married and our friends stood up with us and then we went and had breakfast and went to Aztec where we got married, then we took off and went to California, we were gone for four or five days. Wheelock: Were you still like working at the store as employees? McClanahan: Yes. Wheelock: Did you have a house here? McClanahan: We had rented a house, that house south the hardware, that purple house. They just tore it down not too long ago. We lived in an apartment side of that house. He lived in it. He worked on it and moved into it and we lived there about a year, then we bought the house on the hill and it wasn’t a real old house. It was built in the 30s, I think. It had a room for bathroom but it didn't have any fixtures or running water so we just took all the pennies we had and worked on it and we lived there for 37 years. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: Oh my goodness! McClanahan: 34 years I guess, the last three years we were out there, before Butch died. He only lived there about three years. Wheelock: Is that the one across from the Meltons, that area where I’m thinking? Where you lived before you said, by the Young’s? McClanahan: Where I live now. We lived right next door to the white house, I think the town cop. Wheelock: The Sheriff. Wheelock: Well you fixed it up a lot. McClanahan: We did quite a bit. We were always working on it. They had done a lot to it since we had it. Wheelock: Did you say the Young’s house that those houses were there before? McClanahan: They were there after we moved there. Wheelock: I always thought that the Young’s owned all that land? McClanahan: Donna's dad was Oakley Lunsford, they used to live there now then. They lived in the big house, the white house there, next to us and Donna's grandparent’s owned that land. I think there was 20 acres there and they both had lived in the house that we bought, and they both had died and Oakley bought out all the heirs and then he owned that land. I think there was more to it. I think Ed �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Duncan owned that first but maybe Oakley owned it. I don't remember, but anyhow, he just sold us the house. He had land around it but also the land where Jerry lived wasn't part of that. I think there was 20 acres that was square. Our place and Christino Casias had 5 acres off of that and the rest of it was owned by Oakley. He died. I think Donna got the rest. She got the rest. Wheelock: So with “Cow Heaven?” Who owned that?(laughs) McClanahan: And that went with the store. When we got that the slaughterhouse too. Wheelock: How did he get the name, “Cow Heaven?” McClanahan: I don't know who dubbed that. Wheelock: When we moved here we saw the sign “Cow Heaven,” we just thought that was the greatest thing! McClanahan: I think as I remember, who was it, El Paso built those houses there. There was this road in front of our house. It was a street. There was a road through there, but Oakley had closed it up to Donna’s. Donna and Jerry built there then and I think that El Paso wanted to come through there instead and come up that hill so, Oakley didn't want all that traffic. So he wouldn’t’ t sell it to they. They had to get another route up there so that's it. Wheelock: So that is how that road came about. Do you remember anything else about El Paso coming in? McClanahan: It was kind of exciting to have new houses over there and who got them, it was good. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: So you had the kids up here then, what was some of things they did for their past time? McClanahan: Well, they played. There were kids at the El Paso housing and they played baseball. We had a broken window every year, wore the grass out, things like that. They just played together a lot. One time, one of the kids over there was playing with Cindy-- with Judy and somehow or other a BB gun was involved and she had glasses or she wouldn’t had problems. She had a problem anyhow, but she got glass in the eye. He shot her in the eye with a BB gun. It was pretty hairy! It was on Sunday and we had all this company coming, several couples coming. So Butch loaded her up and took her into the eye doctor. They thought they had all the glass out. It was still scratchy. He had to take her back and they still had glass in there. Wheelock: Oh my goodness, where did you take her? McClanahan: I don't know where he took her. Wheelock: Did you have doctors here? Where were the doctors? McClanahan: Durango. Wheelock: So you had to drive all that distance. So what kind of healthcare did you have here or did you have health care at all? McClanahan: We didn’t have any health care. We didn't have anything. We didn't take any antibiotics. We were healthy people. We didn't have all these preservatives. We did our own cooking instead of buying stuff that was already cooked. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: That brings up, what was the store like comparing the store back then as to now? McClanahan: Oh golly, it was small. I don't know, I don't remember too much. I remember we sold kerosene. They brought their own containers and had eggs in a paper sack. Wheelock: Local eggs? McClanahan: We bought eggs from farmers and they came in and traded them for groceries. Well, we had vinegar in the barrel. We sold Ranch Way Feed. We sold cattle feed. Wheelock: I guess it would be a mixture of different things. McClanahan: What else? Wheelock: Did they sell things like hay? McClanahan: No. You know before they built the slaughterhouse on the hill, I think they slaughtered down by the river someplace. I think all the stuff went into the river, maybe. Of course, when I got up on the hill and didn’t have things like that anymore. You know, you think back when we were kids we had outhouses. The school, we didn't have any running water. I don't remember any sinks to wash her hands in. Things weren't as sanitary at all, but we are all better off for it, I think! I think we put too much emphasis on the sanitary. I don't know, I think sometimes that makes people sick. Wheelock: Back to the school again, did they have outhouses in back of the school and did have boys and girls? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: Yes. Wheelock: Did they have someone watching them? McClanahan: No. Wheelock: You hear stories of pranks? McClanahan: At Halloween, people would tip over the outhouses. Not that much here. Mr. Clark, the barber, used to get so mad at the kids at Halloween because that was reason they did the things they did! But they had more fun tormenting him. (laughs) Wheelock: Where were the barbershops? McClanahan: Well, one was there, where the old SUCAP building was, they added to the store. That was the original barbershop there upstairs and that is where Mr. Clark had his barbershop. There was a little apartment upstairs and I think attached to it was a little hamburger shop and just a counter with a few stools. Wheelock: Up on top or down below? McClanahan: Down below, and when they closed the barbershop there were couple restaurants that went in there and they didn’t seem to make it. Then SUCAP bought it, I think they rented to Tom Wiseman and we bought it from Tom. Wheelock: When did SUCAP come about and why? McClanahan: Well… I don't remember when it was. It had to do with community action. They had those all around. I don't know what they were supposed to be for. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: I know it was supposed to be the Southern Utes and probably just the town Council here and so the Spanish, English and Whites might of all got together? McClanahan: Community Action Program was a government program. I think the Southern Ute, SU sponsored it. Most of the community action programs were closed but the Southern Utes kept there's as they kind of sponsored it. They took it over. I think, I don't know when exactly it started or what the purpose was. It had a purpose. Wheelock: I'm sure it did but when you brought it up, I wonder how it started. Wheelock: Let's go back to the store, when you ran it, when you first started with it, what were some of the produce and vegetables? Were they local or came by train? Wheelock: I can't remember much about the groceries. The store, when I first started, was really small. It was only 25 feet wide. Meat was their thing. They had a meat case. They had some shelves, some groceries, probably what people bought most. You know, I think I remember now, looking back to the women, they never came to town to shop. The men came to shop. I think it was because they only had one car. Women didn't drive. Women made the list and the men came down and did their shopping for the groceries. I can remember, single old men used to come to the store and they’d go around. I remember one guy, his name was... anyway he was in the war and he got shell shocked or gassed or something. He was kind of hard to understand but he’d come in with his wife’s list and if she had crackers on the list, just the two of them, and he took the biggest cracker box we had, and he’d get the �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 biggest stuff. He always had to have a carton of some kind, chewing tobacco. He went to the back, I can't remember what it was, Redmond or something, the kind that came in small pouch, (laughs) and I remember him so well. The men liked to come in and visit. I remember Mr. Saulyers with the agency. Do you remember him? He’d get off at 5 o'clock up there and we didn't close till six, and he'd go home and have dinner with his wife and he'd come around and come in, hang around and visit. We’d try to sweep the floor and get ready to leave and we’d have to move him. Wheelock: Sounds like you had some good memories? McClanahan: We had a good time! Wheelock: When you bought the store was it expanded? McClanahan: No, it had already been expanded. It's a long story, when Oakley thought he wanted to retire and Jerry and Donna got married, Jerry had taken over my job in the groceries and stuff. Wheelock: What were you doing at that time? McClanahan: Well, I retired. I was having babies! (laughs) They had a partnership... Jerry, Butch and Oakley and somehow this went on for a year or two. That didn't work out so good, so Oakley bought it. So Jerry sold out. Oakley bought the other guy out and Butch said, “I've got so much already in the business.” So we had so much already in the business. We bought it and then a year or two later, Oakley's health was declining so we had to do something. He'd went down and talked to the banker and they told �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 him, they said to go ahead and roll over the FDA loan to us, so we got it. Wheelock: So that was up to the old SUCAP building before. They had added to it? McClanahan: I think that Oakley had bought all that land. The Odd Fellows had bought it to begin with and I think he bought it from the Odd Fellows. He got it from the Odd Fellows. When he did, he got that whole vacant lot between Mr. Butler’s store and a barbershop, and they added that while the partnership was going. Wheelock: Is there anything we didn't talk about that you would like to add? McClanahan: No, nothing in particular. Wheelock: I remember both of you when I moved here, and how wonderful you were to Rick and I. McClanahan: You know the lady came in the store, I ran into a lady in the story the other day. She lives out north of the town hall, and she said, “I always remembered when we moved here, we didn't have a phone (and those days they didn’t have a cell phones) and we came in and you let us use the phone.” She thought we were great people because we let them use our phone. Those are just things you did, you know. Why not, why wouldn’t you let her use the phone? Wheelock: You just have a kind heart and Butch and your children. McClanahan: I remember Tom Givon. He was here for quite a while. His wife wasn't with him. She was still up in Oregon. He’d �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 go back up there up to Oregon to teach... whatever. He’d come back, he told me this, he said, “Every time I’d come back to the store you would say, “Oh your back!” I don't know, it was just a fun time and our employees would stay on and on. We didn't have all the employee help they have today, and we didn't pay them all top wages. I remember when we took over the store, Butch gave them all a raise because Oakley wasn’t in paying very much at all, so we gave them all a raise. So I gave raises as we went along. We didn't have any trouble with them but we had those women who worked there for 20 years or more. They worked different cash registers.(laughs) Wheelock: That’s something, what about the technology, watching your technology grow? McClanahan: Well, the different ways we’d mark groceries. We had a stamp thing like a dater. That's the way we marked our groceries to begin with, then we got these little tags, and I don't know... then one day we put up shelf tags and we started ordering by scanning and we had to get scanners. We put in scanners. I can't remember how it evolved, we started in, what did he call it? We put in this kind of cash register and it just opens the drawer. I can't remember just how it worked. You punched in the amount; somehow it was a “casecooler” or something like that. It wasn't much of a cash register and then went to the kind you pulled it. And then we went to the ones you used to punch it in, on the side, before we got the scanners. Wheelock: So we had several of bank robberies in this town. Do you know anything about those? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: I remember that last one, when they caught the guy. I remember it. I don't remember about any of the others but read about them in the paper. It told what they got away with. It wasn't much in our standards today, but it in those days it was a lot.(laughs). Wheelock: Did you have things stolen from the store? Do you have any stories about that? McClanahan: Yeah, we were robbed two or three times. One time we had a safe that we put our bills in, our folding money and it was cemented in the wall. You went down into it. We kept the coins in a little cabinet and one time they came and took all the coins. They didn’t know about the other. They couldn’t get in. It was just before the weekend when we needed all those coins.(laughs)They never caught the people. They didn't know about the safe and couldn’t get into it. I don't think they ever caught the people. Another time they took more than that. They never caught anybody. Wheelock: They just did that! McClanahan: It was just one of those things! Wheelock: Well, I think we pretty well talked about everything that I can think of. McClanahan: I can’t think of anything else. Wheelock: You have been wonderful it’s been wonderful hearing all the things that you’ve been here and done here and as I said you are a pillar of this society of Ignacio, because I know as I said, you helped Rick and I so much. In sense of �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 just your warmth, your kindness to us. You always have a smile and you're always greeting and enjoying life! McClanahan: Before I went to work the store and I was never out going at all. I was very shy and it did a lot for me. In a situation like that I had to meet people and I had to smile, but I loved them. I like people and I like visiting with them once in awhile. They didn't visit very long and just talk a little bit and I imagined I’d asked the same people where their kids are going to college a dozen times, and they never said, “Don't you remember!” (laughs) Wheelock: Well, I know your children and your grandchildren were a pleasure to work with, they were fun. Cindy was great. McClanahan: I love those kids. I am a family person! Wheelock: It shows and you’re a community person. McClanahan: Yes, I love my town. I drive down the street and I think this is a nice-looking town and it is. There are one of two places that needs to be demolished or fixed up but all in all it is pretty good. Wheelock: What do you think are the attributes of this community? McClanahan: What do you mean by attributes? Wheelock: What are the positives of this community? McClanahan: I don't know. I think the library is really a good thing and that it has brought a lot of people together. And it does a lot of good for the community, and the new store is good for the community and we needed that. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: We did! McClanahan: I don't know. It's just a nice town. Wheelock: I think so too! It's a good place to grow up. McClanahan: We just don't have any place for new people to come in, to live! There’s quite a few rentals and I just don't know. We don't have a whole lot of place to expand except on the hill and behind Candelaria Heights. And I thought there was 60 acres the town bought to keep the motorcycles out. They were afraid they were going to buy the land up there. They bought it but didn't have any money to develop it, so I think I they turned it over to the tribe to develop, but I don't think the tribe didn’t do anything either. They had it kind of plotted out. I think they were going have trailer houses here and apartments here, whatever. I had wished that the tribe would build some more apartments. I would think they would want to, because they had so many employees here that would have to drive to work everyday. I would think they would want to put in apartments. Maybe it's one of their priorities. Maybe they'll do it one of these days. They are pretty secretive about things. They don’t say much. You know, where the old casino was, would be a nice place for an apartment house. Wheelock: Yeah, I wonder what they're going to do with that land? McClanahan: Who knows, one of these days we'll find out... if we live long enough? Wheelock: Well thank you very, very much! McClanahan: You bet it was my pleasure! �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 [End of transcription] Transcribed by: Burt Baldwin, July 6, 2016 Audit edit by: Renee Morgan, August 3, 2016 Final edit by: Renee Morgan, August 4, 2016 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jean McClanahan Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016-07-06 Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; McClanahan, Jean, 1924-2021; McClanahan, Butch Description An account of the resource The transcript of an interview with Jean McClanahan conducted by Liz Wheelock at the Ignacio Community Library on Friday, February 5th, 2016. 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Title A name given to the resource Interview with Tina Martinez Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016-05-18 Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Martinez, Benestina Lucero "Tina", 1944-2017 Description An account of the resource An interview with Tina Martinez conducted by Liz Wheelock at the Ignacio Community Library on Wednesday, May 18th, 2016. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/48da76a0276587a7a0529ea19161ac57.mp3 8bebf80008cc30844e79f88afc46a4d8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 49 minutes and 45 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Sylvia Valdez Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016 Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Southern Ute Tribe; Ute; Native American; Valdez, Sylvia T., 1926-2018 Description An account of the resource An interview with Sylvia Valdez conducted by Tony Corona at the Ignacio Community Library on Saturday, January 14th, 2016. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/797230e24cabb64003532b4c43dc4859.mp3 45ffe75d9c2d1fa1757f3275362d583e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33 minutes and 23 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Renee Morgan Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016 Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Morgan, Renee; Oral Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Description An account of the resource An interview with Renee Morgan conducted by Liz Wheelock at the Ignacio Community Library in 2016. https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/198a561cec49a8dd75447660b7d4262a.jpg 2d6c39079a1d9c14d16f8c53ecb2a065 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/505bbfab3f20f866c54f01ad1bd733a7.mp3 65e655b1b8730ba18a1d8ff1d2068ca8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1 hour, 30 minutes and 07 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Rod Grove Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016-02-25 Subject The topic of the resource Grove, Rod; Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Southern Ute Tribe; Ute; Native American; Oral History Description An account of the resource An interview with Rod Grove conducted by Renee Morgan at the Ignacio Community Library on Thursday, February 16th, 2016. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/93dd794a914947822f71e3da0120e636.jpg bdc3ccf9f770b0e3e688ceaf9a89888f https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/5f4bb358a276627646fd8a201243ee8f.mp3 0817234eafaa9463bf28c4db7f52cfa2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 53 minutes and 46 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Russell Box Sr. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Subject The topic of the resource Box, Russell, Sr.; Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Southern Ute Tribe; Ute; Native American Art Description An account of the resource An interview with Russell Box Sr. conducted by Joshua Salyers at the Ignacio Community Library on Saturday, November 12th, 2016. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016-11-12 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/c4e594b7cace057df3967acc27424bc2.jpg fc0c39fe9e4670dc3cb03a0b7bb20719 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/3602bf1587e6cfcd6d6d7f8d16c7077a.mp3 fd0537c58f3c596cad2a716f6b5ee977 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1 hour, 47 minutes and 13 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Pearl Casias Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2014 Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Casias, Pearl; Southern Ute Tribe; Ute; Native American Description An account of the resource An interview with Pearl Casias conducted by Leslie Shell at the Ignacio Community Library in 2014. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/da1ab4861edcd7c0567bb2ee57b19d9b.mp3 08117f8ca9167b6f69a38736ae30d544 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1 hour, 21 minutes and 39 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Carmen Cordova Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016-02-16 Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Cordova, Carmen Description An account of the resource An interview of Carmen Cordova conducted by Liz Wheelock on Tuesday, February 16th, 2016 at the Ignacio Community Library. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/1c80e0186277e640ec9e03081d1967c8.jpg 8b99448a4e6cb42a3cef1e52b6f035c5 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/3c9958912e29b29fe4c2afe9de1a47a4.mp3 231f3dcecc24eac0eb5a298adc0d5257 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47 minutes and 43 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Carolynne Taylor Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016-08-09 Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; Taylor, Carolynne Description An account of the resource An interview of Carolynne Taylor conducted by Renee Morgan on Tuesday, August 9th, 2016 at the Ignacio Community Library, Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound