2 10 216 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/6e0ebe2e794942e401ba92bea8f0ee24.pdf 3fb7ceac231fd51b412a3dd4d76d633a PDF Text Text PAUL AND HAZEL (Gunderman) BRAKE During the first two decades of this century, the Ithaca (New York) Conservatory of Music was one of the four finest music centers in the country. It was there Paul Brake and Hazel Gunderman became acquainted through their interest in music and dated and became good friends. Ithaca, in the Finger Lakes district of southern New York, is a very beautiful place. "It's very much like here, only less rugged and has much mare rain" says Hazel. When Hazel was born on August 30, 1901, her parents, Charles and Ethyl Gunderman, lived in Waverly, New York, about 40 miles south of Ithaca. Mr. Gunderman was employed by an aggressive company with a great future, the Bell Telephone Co. "Dad was a construction foreman and a trouble man for 33 years. This job eventually took us to Ithaca. It was hard work without the machines used today. The telephone poles were raised by horses and the men had to pull the wires by hand. During the years he was a trouble man, he was called out during storms and in the middle of the night whenever service was interrupted." School was quite demanding in those days. "We didn't get any credit for just being there. Every year we had to pass the Regent's Exam or we would not be passed on to the next grade. Our home was heated by a coal stove. We had running water from the town's spring-fed reservoir, so pure it needed no filtration. -We had no supermarkets. We bought milk and eggs at the creamery and our meat at the butcher's. The stores did have canned goods, which was a help, since the only fresh things available during winter were cabbage, celery, turnips and plenty of apples. Bacon was 20 cents a pound and if butter got to 35 cents a pound, people-thought it was too high to use. Refrigerating food was never a problem in winter. We always had a cold room, but in summer every one used an ice box. Blocks of ice were delivered twice a week. Ice cutting on the river provided work for many men during winter." During the 1920's Hazel taught music to many private students. This work was successful and enjoyable until the years of the depression. Suddenly people were too poor to pay for music lessons and Hazel was out of work. In 1932 Hazel and her mother went to Los Angeles for a visit and decided to stay, since there were more jobs in California. Over the next 30 years Hazel had a variety of jobs. "I took whatever was available during the depression. There was no unemployment compensation then." In 1962 Hazel made a trip back to Ithaca. While visiting Miss Holmes, one of her old teachers at the conservatory, she learned that Paul Brake, whom she had not seen for over 30 years, was teaching school in Salida, Colorado. When she returned home, Hazel wrote to Opal and the friendship which had begun so long ago, resumed. They met in Las Vegas, Nevada, over Christmas vacation of 1962 and were married. Paul returned to Salida to finish the school year. The next summer he joined Hazel in Los Angeles. The Brakes came to Ignacio and Durango for a vacation in the summer of 1964. This was not Paul's first trip to this area. He had taught music in the Ute Vocational School for 6 years 1946-53. Of all the bands he taught in various schools across the country, 16 �'1 '1 '1 1 1 1 I I Mr. Brake says he got the most satisfaction from his bands at the Indian School. Primarily, Mr. Brake says, "Because the Indian children are very talented, musically." J l ' I ) ' ' ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) J ) _) J .) .J J .J .J __) .J .._) .._) ..) .._) .._) J J J Paul had good memories of Ignacio and Hazel took an immediate liking for the area. After a little searching, they located a house to buy, then returned to Los Angeles, since Hazel needed to work only a few months to reach retirement age. She had no regrets about leaving Los Angeles. "Los Angeles offers many cultural advantages, such as the Hollywood Bowl, the museums, and the symphony, but I never really liked it there very well. It is damp and foggy much of the time. Then the town began to grow until all the autos made the air almost unbreathable.'' Pulling up stakes to move to Los Angeles and then on to Ignacio is part of the pattern of Paul Brake's life. His career in music has taken him to more places in the country than most people have heard of. Paul's father, Charles Hobart Brake was a school teacher educated in Canada. Later he bought a Business College in Norfolk, Nebraska. Paul was born there on December 14, 1897. After selling the college, Charles farmed in Nebraska and then decided to go back to New York. Not long afterward, Paul began to demonstrate the beginnings of the musical talent which would dominate his life, Paul had been forbidden to "bother his father's clarinet', but when he was alone in the house, Paul experimented with it until he could play a tune. When his father caught him, he decided it was not mischief but potential talent showing up. So -Paul got lessons. Then he was sent to the conservatory where he met Hazel. His first jobs were providing theme music at the theaters in Ithaca. Then he went on the road with the band in Van Arnum's Circus and became fascinated with the traveling life. Over the next 20 years, he traveled the country with a marvelous variety of circuses, road shows and melodramas. Paul worked one season on a living legend, the Cotton Blossom Show Boat. "We played the towns up and down the Mississippi, Ohio, Cumberland and Tennessee Rivers, one play going down and another coming back up the river. We did Little Shepherd of Kingdom Come and Unwa nted Child. The band provided incidental music for the plays. When the boat stopped near Hannibal, Missouri, I asked an old timer whether he had known Mark Twain. He said yes, he had known him and that Mark was a pretty good man, but an awful liar." The show boat was a theater built on a garage. It would seat 500. "Most of the time we stopped at towns, but occasionally we'd tie up at lonely little docks in farm country. That night we'd see the people walking through the woods with their lanterns and rowing down the river in their skiffs. People in those areas were hungry for entertainment and it was surprising what a crowd we'd pull out of seemingly empty country. Seats cost 35 cents to 75 cents. There were 10 in the cast, 12 in the band and a crew of 3 operated the stern-wheeler steam boat which maneuvered the garage." Paul played tuba for the Youngstown, Ohio Symphony for several years, then went back on the road with the Ringling Brothers-Barnum & Bailey Circus. Other years he taught band in schools in Ohio, Texas and Colorado . The Brake's time in Colorado has been retirement in the best sense of the word. Now that there is time, they have both worked to develop further their talents and interests . Hazel has taught piano to many youngsters and spends hours oil painting. Paul fishes 17 �in the Pine River when he takes a notion, teaches violin and composes music. His latest creation, a symphonic composition of four suites for band was conducted by Mr. Brake at the Ft. Lewis Concert last December. Our senior citizens are people with abilities and interests as varied and as valuable as those of any other age group. The Brakes are adequate evidence of this. We send both of them our best wishes for good health and for many years to work and create and contribute to their community. January, 1976 -- by Shelby Smith 18 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Shelby Smith Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-NC/1.0/?language=en Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-1980 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of biographies, predominantly of residents from the Ignacio Senior Center, based on interviews conducted by Shelby Smith from approximately 1973 to 1980. The abridged interviews were originally published as individual entries in The Thoughtful Years newsletter, published by the Ignacio Senior Center, beginning in 1973. They were later published as a whole in Smith's book: Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley, from which the original scans in this collection have been derived. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Paul Brake and Hazel (Gunderman) Brake Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1976-01 Subject The topic of the resource Brake, Paul; Brake, Hazel (Gunderman); Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Biography of Paul Brake and Hazel (Gunderman) Brake based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith. Originally included in the January, 1976 issue of "The Thoughtful Years" newsletter published by the Ignacio Senior Center. Later included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brake, Paul; Brake, Hazel (Gunderman) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 3 pages Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/ Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/cb2d33f162bcbcf5802ab75c80c35622.pdf 649a64a41547d9e01836a48f25089f8e PDF Text Text '1 '1 '1 '1 'l '1 'l J 'l i ) ) i EDITH SHOSHONE BURCH "Since my parents both died when I was 3 years old, the only things I know about them came from my oldest sister, May. I was born June 6, 1907 in the Pine Valley across the river from Ignacio, probably in a tepee. The Indians often moved into their tepees during the warm months, partly because they were easy to move when they got restless and partly because they reminded them of an earlier time. My father, Harry Shoshone, Sr. was a tribal policeman. Death came early and unexpectedly for him. He was sent to patrol a fair in Durango and in the course of his duty he chased some unruly drunks, stepped in a hole while running and broke his leg. Infection set in. The leg was amputated and he died from loss of blood. A few months later my mother, Laura, died also. I do not know the cause of her death." J ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) } J ) ) J .J J .J _) ...J _) J ...J J J J J J J J J "I was placed in the Indian School Dormitory north of Ignacio. Since I was so young, I was placed with the cook, Mrs. Simpson, (Jessie Hott's mother) who had an apartment in the dorm. Later she married and became Mrs. Stauffer. She was like a mother to me and took a special interest in me until I left the Ignacio School at the age of 11. The dormitory I lived in is now the boy's dorm. At that time one end was for boys and the other for girls. Some of the other original buildings are gone and the water tower which gave us so much fun is now gone. We were not supposed to climb it, so of course, we did. I tried it once but got so scared half way up, I came back down. None of us went home for the holidays. We stayed at school all year until summer vacation. I spent summers with my sister, May." "At the age of 11, I was sent to school at Towaoc for a year. Then I went to Santa Fe where I finished the 8th grade. I could have gone to Albuquerque to finish high school, but instead I took a job working in a Sanitarium at Dulce. Later I worked for a Presbyterian missionary in the Dulce area. When he moved to Albuquerque, I came back to Ignacio. Ernest Burch went to school w ith me, but I never paid any attention to him until I moved back to Ignacio. He built dams and irrigation ditches for the Pine River Project. He had bought an old Ford car with a crank start. It was fun to go on dates in a car. We got married in 1927. At first we lived with my sister Jane Bird in an old adobe house located near the present site of the Tribal maintenance shop. Soon we moved into a two room frame house with a living room-kitchen and one bedroom. It had a wood-burning cook stove and no other improvements. Later we got Louis Valdez to build us a 4 room adobe house. It still stands south of Graves Gunn's house. We had running water in a spring down near the river bank. We fenced the spring to keep dogs and cows from spoiling the clean water. Fortunately, I knew how to ride a horse, because Ernest needed me to help round up his cattle and sheep for many years. After several years we built a house up on the hill east of Ignacio. It was a special house since it was our first one with modern plumbing and lights." "My husband was a singer and dancer in the old tradition of the tribe. He was often the first one up the valley to sing and play the drum while the Sun Dancers held up their arms to pray. He knew the Bear Dance songs and often helped with that. All the Indian 19 �ways and ceremonials were very important to him. He followed the Indian ways until he died in 1977." "We had 10 children in all. The ones still living are Homer, Ernestine, LaVarra, Nova Dene, Robert, Dennis and Cynthia. Franklin died when he was 18. The others died when they were babies." "We moved out of Ignacio in April of 1977. Ernest died in November. His funeral was at Sacred Heart Church in Durango where we were married 50 years before. When I think about the days when we were young, I remember how active we were. We baked our own bread and made quilts. If we needed something from the store, we walked to town with packs on our backs to carry the canned goods. I think we have gotten too lazy." "The important thing for me today is to go to church. I like to go twice on Sunday. I enjoy it and I enjoy going to Worker's Conference in other towns. I try to get my Indian friends to go to church regularly. It helps me and I think it would help them, too." March, 1979 -- by Shelby Smith 20 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Shelby Smith Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-NC/1.0/?language=en Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-1980 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of biographies, predominantly of residents from the Ignacio Senior Center, based on interviews conducted by Shelby Smith from approximately 1973 to 1980. The abridged interviews were originally published as individual entries in The Thoughtful Years newsletter, published by the Ignacio Senior Center, beginning in 1973. They were later published as a whole in Smith's book: Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley, from which the original scans in this collection have been derived. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Edith Shoshone Burch Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1979-03 Subject The topic of the resource Burch, Edith Shoshone; Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Biography of Edith Shoshone Burch based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith. Originally included in the March, 1979 issue of "The Thoughtful Years" newsletter published by the Ignacio Senior Center. Later included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Burch, Edith Shoshone Extent The size or duration of the resource. 2 pages Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/ Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/4959f21e99c6159383421e1ba826f3ac.pdf 3c23cd2dfe8971978a98e3785a8348cb PDF Text Text 'l '7 '7 '7 'l 'l 'l ' ' ' ) l ) ' ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) MANUAL G. AND REGINA (Gallegos) CANDELARIA It's a long way from Spain to Arboles, Colorado, especially by way of California, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico to Colorado; but that's the route which over several generations Manual Candelaria's ancestors have come. His Great-grandparents migrated to California from the Candelaria Valley in Spain. By the time Manual's father, Joe was born, the family lived in Chile, N. M. In successive years they moved to Tierra Amarillo and Caracas. Manual's grandfather with relatives and friends, scouted the Dolores Valley and decided to move there, but when the time came to load up and go, the rivers were too high to cross. Moving down the San Juan Valley they came to Rosa and liked it well enough to stay. It was a simpler and perhaps saner world into which Manual C. Candelaria was born on Nov. 16, 1899. Rosa, New Mexico, just below the Colorado line on the San Juan River, had a general store, a saloon and a few houses. Irrigation ditches had been installed to make green farms in the valley and above were the ranches in the dry-hills. Everyone had a few cattle and a horse or two. Joe and Faustina had two children before Manual was born, but both of them died. In 1901 Manual's mother died. During Manual's infancy and teenage years his father worked at various jobs in the area. Little Manual stayed with first one relative, then another. There was plenty of work to do wherever he stayed, but also some time for himself. He especially liked the summer when he could wade in the river and fish for trout. The general store had many things tempting to children, but Manual could only look. Ready cash was scarce for even adults. Children had none. Manual never went to school. ) J ) ) J _) _) .J .J ..J .J .J .J ...J J ...J J ...J J J ....) Sometime during Manual's early years San Juan County in N.M., the whole state of Colorado went dry. The fact that Rio Arriba County was still wet and that Rosa was in the extreme northwest corner nearest the population centers in Southwest Colorado brought swift and drastic changes to the tiny town. Soon there were eleven saloons riproaring 24 hours per day. Characters of every description, farmers, sheep men, cattlemen, railroaders, miners from Silverton and Telluride and dudes from Durango and Cortez flocked to Rosa on holidays and weekends and any other time they could. All of them were thirsty. Rosa was a fighting, gambling, carousing little town for several years. Living with one relative, then another, was not easy. Manual felt he didn't really belong anywhere. Joe remarried in 1911. Manual ran away when he was 15. One grandmother lived at Kline and he headed there. He rode the train to Durango, intending to catch the train to Telluride, get off at Hesperus and hitch rides to Kline. Manual didn't foresee the trouble a boy who could speak no English could have at a depot. Somehow the ticket agent misunderstood. As a result Manual found himself on a train headed north. When he got off at Silverton, Manual had 35 cents. He didn't know what to do, but he was determined not to return home. Soon he found a job in the kitchen of a boarding house at a mine 9 miles north of Silverton. His wages were $75.00 per month plus room and board. He washed dishes, helped the cook and did odd jobs around the place. Most of the miners were Italians and Swedes. They couldn't pronounce Candelaria, so Manual was known as "Candy". One big fellow who everyone called the "Big Swede" (Manual never knew his real name) took a special liking to "Candy". Whenever payday came, 21 �Manual would sign his check over to the Swede and the Swede bought Manual clothes, shoes, or whatever else he needed. For two years Manual hardly ever went to Silverton for fear someone would recognize him and let his dad know where he was. Finally, he met one of his old friends, Joe Maez. For a change they decided to leave Silverton and get jobs in Telluride. His last few days in Silverton, Manual spent with the big Swede. He would always get drunk when he went to town. This time the Swede disappeared for a couple of days. I didn't know where he was. Then I saw him coming down the street. He was unshaven and had a black eye. I asked him where he had been. "In jail", he said. After he got cleaned up, he took me to the bank and showed me my bank balance. Every dollar of every check I had given him was there. Everything he had bought for me was out of his own money. Joe and I soon left for Telluride and I never saw the Swede again. On the way to Telluride the boys did some shopping in Durango. Manual had a hard time communicating. He thought he had learned English at the mine. Actually, what he had learned was 5% English and the rest an astonishing conglomerate of Italian, Swedish and Mexican. After working two years in Telluride, Joe Maez decided to go visit his folks in Rosa and talked Manual into going too. "I didn't want to go, but I decided maybe I should. Most boys change a lot between ages 15 and 19. Manual certainly had. 'I looked different and I had a lot of nice clothes. About all I ever spent money on was clothes. My step-mother didn't recognize me and my dad almost didn't. He cried when he saw me." From this point on Manual worked away part of the time and stayed at home part of the time. One reason he spent time at home was a pretty little girl named Regina Gallegos. "She was a pretty girl. I would watch her walking home from school. Some people thought I was interested in her because her folks were rich. They owned a nice farm and a saloon in Rosa, but that wasn't why. I just liked her." Regina, born Jan. 13, 1905, was only 15 when Manual first noticed her. Her parents, Aneceto and Adela Gallegos, opposed their friendship at first. Regina recalls, "I had to sneak out of the house to go on buggy rides and to dances with Manual." Once while working at Gobernador, Manual heard about a basket auction at Arboles. He had a good pacing horse and rode the 40 miles just to bid on Regina's basket. "Some of my friends kept raising the bid on me. I finally had to pay over $6.00 for it." Manual and Regina were married January 28, 1924. They lived in Rosa for a year, then moved to Dolores to work in the Mcfee Mine. Later Manual got a job on a repair train for the D. & R.G. "We lived in a box car. It was well furnished and warm and comfortable. Manual worked on the steam shovel which moved up and down the Durango-Silverton line repairing flood damage to the tracks. Our car would be parked on a siding hill as we moved up to a new area. We never left the train from April to December. All our necessities were brought in by supply trains." In 1931 Manual and Regina staked a dry land claim on the mesa near La Jara. They built a house, planted an orchard and raised some good crops. Government inspectors tried to run them off, but Manual stayed till his claim became a test case in Albuquerque and he won. Later they leased land near Arboles and then began buying it until they acquired about 800 acres. The Candelaria's raised 7 children on the ranch. All of the 22 �') ') """'\ ' ' ' ' """'\ l children survive. Manual Jr. operates the ranch now. Manual says, "My son does most of the work. I can do a lot yet, but when you get old, you get smart." The Candelarias like to travel. They have made 3-4 trips to Mexico, once to Mexico City and once to Acapulco. "I'd like to go again," Regina says. Last January 28, Manual and Regina celebrated their 51st wedding anniversary. We wish them many more y,ears of happy living on their ranch. ) Shelby Smith, March, 1975. ) J ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) _) .) _J J ..) ..J ..) ..J ..J ..J ..J ..J .J .J .J J J 23 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Shelby Smith Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-NC/1.0/?language=en Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-1980 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of biographies, predominantly of residents from the Ignacio Senior Center, based on interviews conducted by Shelby Smith from approximately 1973 to 1980. The abridged interviews were originally published as individual entries in The Thoughtful Years newsletter, published by the Ignacio Senior Center, beginning in 1973. They were later published as a whole in Smith's book: Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley, from which the original scans in this collection have been derived. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Manual Candelaria and Regina (Gallegos) Candelaria Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1975-03 Subject The topic of the resource Candelaria, Manual G.; Candelaria, Regina (Gallegos); Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Biography of Manual Candelaria and Regina (Gallegos) Candelaria based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith in March, 1975. Included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Candelaria, Manual; Candelaria, Regina (Gallegos) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 3 pages Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/ Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/528b641f18412144b98046eab3ac32aa.pdf dbeecf70bf3189c78cd587ae03d34e48 PDF Text Text SARAH MAE "SALLY" (WICKLIFF) CAPELL Can on Ohio girl find happiness in Colorado? "Sally" didn't think so in 1938 when her husband Arthur decided he wanted to move to Ignacio. Arthur Capell had wanted to live in the mountains for many years. In 1930 he and Sally visited Montana looking for a job, but shied away from starting a new life there when they learned it sometimes is 40 degrees below zero. Then in 1938 Arthur discovered a man in Ignacio wanted to trade mail routes with someone in Ohio. Arthur reasoned that Ignacio would have a mountain climate more to his liking since its latitude is the same as that of Virginia. Sally agreed to move, wanting whatever would make Arthur happy, but she admits the move was a traumatic one accompanied by tears and more tears at the thought of leaving all her relatives and friends acquired over a lifetime. The Capell's only son Kenneth was already married and had started his life in Columbus, Ohio, where he and his wife still live. In one way the move to Ignacio was a disappointment to Arthur. Accustomed as he was to the well graveled roads in Ohio, the unimproved La Plata County Roads of 1938 were a frustrating obstacle to a rural postman. Despite her original reluctance about moving, Sally learned to love her new life in Colorado even more than Arthur did. Now that Arthur is deceased, Sally has been urged by her friends and relatives in Ohio to be "sensible" and move back home. However, Sally says "Ignacio has the friendliest, finest people and a beautiful climate. I'll never leave." Sarah Mae "Sally" Wickliff was born in her parents 3 story brick home on 39 acres near Pataskala, Ohio, in 1889. Though her father's farm was small, he worked it efficiently, rotating crops of corn and wheat and putting up hay and taking good care of his cattle. Sally remembers the beauty of the green Ohio countryside with its scattered woods and clear flowing creeks. The covered bridges in the area were useful in the summer as well as winter. Teamsters and horsemen would hurry to them during rain showers. After graduating from high school, Sally and her sister passed the state test to become teachers. They taught in country schools one mile apart for four years. Teaching was a pleasant 8 month per year job for Sally. She says she never had much trouble getting along with the students. "After the first couple of paddlings, they found out who was boss!" Sally liked square dancing, but recalls being nervous about it during the years she was teaching, since many parents of that time would criticize a teacher for disporting herself in such a manner. During this lime Sally was being courted by Arthur Capell, who had been a childhood friend since age 12. One of Arthu~s first jobs as a young man was driving a Huckster's wagon. This was a covered wagon which served as a traveling general store. He sold cloth, hardware, pots, patent medicine and groceries to farm residents who seldom traveled to town. Since many farmers had little cash, they would pay for their supplies with butter, eggs, cream and produce. Later Arthur drove a produce wagon before he accepted a job as a U.S. Postman. 24 �Sally smiles when she talks about Arthur's fast horses. Before they were married, Arthur bought a sleek black horse which he named Diamond Denmark. Sally smiles even bigger when she recalls that the purchase of Diamond Denmark. "required" the purchase of a new buggy! During the long Ohio summer evenings Sally would sit in a lawn chair listening for the hoof beats of the black horse which she could hear long before it came into view over the crest of the hill. On Sunday afternoons Sally and Arthur would hitch Diamond to the new buggy for a ride on the "Pike" near Pataskala. Arthur would travel at moderate speed until some other young blade and his gal would try to come around them. No one, she recalls was ever able to pass Diamond Denmark. When the Capells came here in 1938, Ignacio and the whole country was coming out of the Great Depression. Ignacio had the train then and Sally wishes it were still here. One Thanksgiving she rode the train back to Ohio to visit her family. Returning a few days before Christmas she remembers changing from the wide gauge to the narrow gauge train at Alamosa. The narrow gauge coaches were carpeted and very comfortable. Sally says the magnificent snowy peaks and canyons through which the train traveled in the region of Cumbres Pass was an unforgettable sight. ) ) ) J J _) _) _) ..) _) J J J J J ...J ...J ...J ...J J In 1945 Arthur got horse fever again in the form of a fine mare named Queen-of-Hearts. He built a stable and corral just across the street from his home on Browning. In 1948 "Queenie" gave birth to a little filly which was to become Arthur and Sally's pride and joy. Miss Jody Reed won races in Denver and was a source of pleasure to Arthur for many years. Perhaps the only "Colt Shower" ever held in Ignacio was held in honor of Jody's birth. Some of those who brought presents to this tongue-in-cheek affair were Paul Ritter, Lawrence Wiseman and Okla Lunsford. Miss Jody Reed, now a Regal 25 years old is in retirement on the Emmet Hott farm. When Sally Capell goes out to visit Miss Jody Reed, we'll excuse her if she sees more than an aging mare. It may be she will recapture the image of quiet rides in the Pine River Valley of a summer evening or the excited roar of the crowd at Centenial Downs and Ruidosa and Raton. It may be the apprehension at facing a new life in a new land far from familiar things and the discovery that neighborliness and generosity and friendship can take root wherever they're planted. We'll excuse Sally if she hears the singing of buggy wheels and the drumming of hooves on the Pataskala Pike, or if for just a moment she hears distant hoof beats growing clearer and more distinct until a rider on a tall black horse rises into view at the crest of a green Ohio hill. We'll excuse her because all of us have links with the past which evoke memories and reveries of great value. Today Sally Capell is a hospitable, gracious lady and a good citizen, and a good friend. We wish her many more happy years. November, 1973 -- Shelby Smith 25 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Shelby Smith Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-NC/1.0/?language=en Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-1980 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of biographies, predominantly of residents from the Ignacio Senior Center, based on interviews conducted by Shelby Smith from approximately 1973 to 1980. The abridged interviews were originally published as individual entries in The Thoughtful Years newsletter, published by the Ignacio Senior Center, beginning in 1973. They were later published as a whole in Smith's book: Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley, from which the original scans in this collection have been derived. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sarah Mae (Wickliff) Capell Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-11 Subject The topic of the resource Capell, Sarah Mae (Wickliff) Description An account of the resource Biography of Sarah Mae "Sally" (Wickliff) Capell based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith. Originally included in the November, 1973 issue of "The Thoughtful Years" newsletter published by the Ignacio Senior Center. Later included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Extent The size or duration of the resource. 2 pages Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Capell, Sarah Mae (Wickliff) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/ Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/9ecc764170eaccfdef3f8f1717b5f4ca.pdf 4f57b02d3ca91e834ecd3742e9a1f9c7 PDF Text Text WALTER AND ANNA (Liese) CARLSON Many Europeans who later became Americans were a surprise to their relatives. John Erricson Carlson's mother lived all her life 45 miles from Stockholm, Sweden, without ever having visited that city. Despite her example of staying put, John became a traveler to distant places. Being subject to the Swedish Army, John could not leave until he was 21. Then he crossed the ocean and came to Kansas where he stayed until he learned English by reading Swedish and English Bibles. Once he felt competent to use English, he moved on to Denver where he worked at a number of jobs. First he worked for the city digging sewer trenches, narrowly avoiding tragedy, when a wall of earth collapsed on him. Next he worked in the machine shop of the D. & R.G.W. railroad. Workers were expected to be on time. The gate was locked at 8:00 and latecomers were not allowed to enter for an hour. Pay was $1.50 per day. Later John was hired as a machinist's helper at the Tramway Co., one of the streetcar companies in Denver where he worked at least 8 years. Labor unions were just gaining some influence in those days. One union John told his children about was the Industrial Workers of the World, the I.W.W. which opponents claimed meant "I won't work." The Carlson's son John Walter was born in Denver March 5, 1896. "The terrace (apartment) where I was born is probably gone now," Walter says, "but it was located about where the Valley Highway (Interstate 25) crosses South Santa Fe in Denver. This was close to the Platte River across from a glass factory. We used to cross the river on a foot bridge." "When I was 5 or 6 Dad decided he wanted to farm. He bought a place on the Divide between Denver and Colorado Springs about 45 miles southeast of Denver near Elizabeth, Colorado. I started to school there, but we didn't stay long. We moved back to Denver, settling out west near Sheridan and Alameda. At that time there was a lot of open country around Denver, orchards, grain fields and dairies. For a while I herded cows for 50 cents a week. I went to Barnum school till 4th grade. Even then Denver had nice public parks and Elitch Gardens was open. It was fun to go ice skating and to ride the streetcars." In 1906 when young John was 10, his father heard about land opening for settlement in southwest Colorado. He bought a place near Tiffany and Vallejo (later called Allison) and moved the family. The trip took 4 days by train. The family loaded their possessions in 5 boxcars. This included 2 dogs, 2 horses, 2 cows and some chickens plus a rake and a mowing machine. Walter's mother later said, "We packed everything but the milk stool and it came a week later." "It was pretty hard," Walter recalls. "There wasn't a bridge, a fence or a house in sight except a house for the railroad section foreman. Otherwise it was just sagebrush. We lived under a pinon tree, not even in a tent, just under a tree until we built one room. In the fall Dad built a 12x12' house. The Shanks were already here. Mrs. Newcombe had a small store built of cedar posts. I can still remember the candy in fruit jars. Later Mr. Thomas built a store and blacksmith shop. Allison was named Vallejo by the railroad 26 �') 'I 'I 'I 'I 'I ' ' i ) ' ) i i ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) J ..) ..) ..) ..) J J J ..J J J J J J .J ..J until a surveyor named Allison Stauffer came through promoting a new irrigation system. Then the residents decided to change the name." "In the fall the men around Tiffany decided to build a school because the place was growing fast. P.M. Engler, Parris Engler, Sylvia Pargin, Una and John Rencher and Inez Rowse were some of my classmates . " "There was some rivalry between the two towns. There was a Tiffany gang and an Allison Gang. It wasn't a serious thing, but it was noticeable." "Once we went to chivaree a young couple who had just been married. He wouldn't come out of the house so we smoked him out. We stuffed gunny sacks in the chimney until he had to come out. It was the custom for the person being chivareed to treat the crowd. We took him to the store where we each got candy or some small item. The whole treat cost him 55 cents." A new family bought a farm adjacent to the Carlsons in 1916. The Liesa's had a daughter named Anna and it wasn't long before Walter noticed her. Anna Gesine Liese was born July 30,1895 at Sioux city, Iowa. Her parents were Hermann J. Liese born in Hamburg, Germany and Ottilie Therese Johanna Glander, born in Straulandsen, Germany in 1866. Hermann came to America in 1877. Ottilie didn't arrive until 1885 when she was 19. For a while she worked as a housemaid in New York City for 50 cents a week. After they were married the Liesa's lived in many places across the country. After Anna was born in Iowa, they lived in Minnesota, Oregon, Washington and finally arrived in Farmington, N.M. "What a dusty place," my father thought. A realtor there told him he might like Durango better." Hermann bought a farm in the Animas valley north of town. Anna got a job as waitress and maid at the Southern Hotel across the street from the depot. To get to work, Anna walked to Animas City, then caught the street car to the depot. A few months later Hermann decided he would like the Tiffany area better so he traded farms with a family there. Shortly after the Lieses arrived one of the neighbors played cupid by inviting both Walter and Anna to supper one evening. After supper Walter boldly said, "Are you ready to go home, Miss Liese?" Six months later Walter and Anna were married. Walter's father had a new Model T Ford, which they drove to Ignacio. Unable to find a minister in Ignacio, they went on to Bayfield where they were married on July 25, 1917. The Model T's were hard to crank, but good in the mud. Tires didn't last long on the country roads. When Walter went to Pagosa on business once it required 5 hours to go and 5 to return. He went through Bayfield, since there was no road up the Piedra Valley. Along some stretches of the road the dust was 10" deep because of the constant pounding from the lumber wagons. Walter was drafted in 1918, sent to Ft. Logan, then to Nogales, Arizona, and San Antonio. He was scheduled to be shipped to France when the armistice was signed. His total time in the army was 9 months. 27 �') 'I 'I 'I 'I 'I ' ' i ) ' ) i i ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) J ..) ..) ..) ..) J J J ..J J J J J J .J ..J until a surveyor named Allison Stauffer came through promoting a new irrigation system. Then the residents decided to change the name." "In the fall the men around Tiffany decided to build a school because the place was growing fast. P.M. Engler, Parris Engler, Sylvia Pargin, Una and John Rencher and Inez Rowse were some of my classmates . " "There was some rivalry between the two towns. There was a Tiffany gang and an Allison Gang. It wasn't a serious thing, but it was noticeable." "Once we went to chivaree a young couple who had just been married. He wouldn't come out of the house so we smoked him out. We stuffed gunny sacks in the chimney until he had to come out. It was the custom for the person being chivareed to treat the crowd. We took him to the store where we each got candy or some small item. The whole treat cost him 55 cents." A new family bought a farm adjacent to the Carlsons in 1916. The Liesa's had a daughter named Anna and it wasn't long before Walter noticed her. Anna Gesine Liese was born July 30,1895 at Sioux city, Iowa. Her parents were Hermann J. Liese born in Hamburg, Germany and Ottilie Therese Johanna Glander, born in Straulandsen, Germany in 1866. Hermann came to America in 1877. Ottilie didn't arrive until 1885 when she was 19. For a while she worked as a housemaid in New York City for 50 cents a week. After they were married the Liesa's lived in many places across the country. After Anna was born in Iowa, they lived in Minnesota, Oregon, Washington and finally arrived in Farmington, N.M. "What a dusty place," my father thought. A realtor there told him he might like Durango better." Hermann bought a farm in the Animas valley north of town. Anna got a job as waitress and maid at the Southern Hotel across the street from the depot. To get to work, Anna walked to Animas City, then caught the street car to the depot. A few months later Hermann decided he would like the Tiffany area better so he traded farms with a family there. Shortly after the Lieses arrived one of the neighbors played cupid by inviting both Walter and Anna to supper one evening. After supper Walter boldly said, "Are you ready to go home, Miss Liese?" Six months later Walter and Anna were married. Walter's father had a new Model T Ford, which they drove to Ignacio. Unable to find a minister in Ignacio, they went on to Bayfield where they were married on July 25, 1917. The Model T's were hard to crank, but good in the mud. Tires didn't last long on the country roads. When Walter went to Pagosa on business once it required 5 hours to go and 5 to return. He went through Bayfield, since there was no road up the Piedra Valley. Along some stretches of the road the dust was 10" deep because of the constant pounding from the lumber wagons. Walter was drafted in 1918, sent to Ft. Logan, then to Nogales, Arizona, and San Antonio. He was scheduled to be shipped to France when the armistice was signed. His total time in the army was 9 months. 27 �Walter was a farmer, but worked away from home a lot, too. He was a ditch rider, had 2 thrashing machines for contract thrashing and operated a grain cleaning machine which could also grind the feed. This machine was powered by a tractor until REA brought in electricity. Walter was foreman on a road crew, helped sign up people for REA and secured right-of-way for the lines. When Walter became ill in 1924 the Doctors at the Veterans hospital ordered him to quit working. He didn't obey, but he did quit farming, moved to Ignacio and started a business. He operated Ignacio Motors, handling Massey-Farmington farm equipment until 1969. The Carlson 's had five children. Irene Augusta died in the flu epidemic at the age of 6 months in 1918. Emanuel farms the home place at Tiffany. John lives in Albuquerque. Anna May Carden lives in Ignacio and Emma Shock lives near Tiffany. "In the old days," the Carlsons say, "People had to depend on one another and help one another to survive. In the summer people would stagger the butchering and pass around the meat they could not use before it would spoil. People traded fruit and vegetables with their neighbors who had different varieties. No one had to harvest alone. People always helped one another. In winter the men cut ice together until all the ice houses were full. Anna was a midwife for years. She delivered babies of all ethnic groups. Walter served as undertaker when necessary. That's the way it was. We had to depend on one another and take care of one another. On July 25, 1977, the Carlson's will have been married 60 years. We wish to congratulate them on this anniversary and thank them for the part they contributed in building this community. July, 1977 -- SHELBY SMITH 28 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Shelby Smith Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-NC/1.0/?language=en Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-1980 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of biographies, predominantly of residents from the Ignacio Senior Center, based on interviews conducted by Shelby Smith from approximately 1973 to 1980. The abridged interviews were originally published as individual entries in The Thoughtful Years newsletter, published by the Ignacio Senior Center, beginning in 1973. They were later published as a whole in Smith's book: Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley, from which the original scans in this collection have been derived. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Walter Carlson and Anna (Liese) Carlson Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1977-07 Subject The topic of the resource Carlson, Walter; Carlson, Anna (Liese) Description An account of the resource Biography of Walter Carlson and Anna (Liese) Carlson based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith in July, 1977. Included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carlson, Walter; Carlson, Anna (Liese) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 4 pages Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/ Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/1835b22321114a1211abf5b9df18a57f.pdf 24a6042b21e7286109ae1a4dd55473ad PDF Text Text -, -, 'l -, 'l ,' , l ) ) J ) J ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) MARIA BENEDITA (Lucero) CASIAS In 1898 when Leandro and Candelaria Lucero were farming near Cuba, N.M., their first child was born. Maria Benedita was the first of six children and the only girl. Two years later Benedita's father heard of good land and new opportunities across the line in Colorado, so he moved his family to a farm near La Boca. They stayed there for a year, then rented the Joe Velasquez ranch 7 miles south of Ignacio near Martin Hayes place, the first son born in the family was Manual, then Julian, Eustavio, Genino and Alfredo. Leandro had goats, chickens, pigs and sheep as well as horses for work and transportation. As the boys grew up they gave plenty of help with the irrigating and harvesting on the farm. Benedita and her mother took care of the garden and the cooking, weaving and sewing. Candelaria raised her own chili and other produce. "She dried everything," Benedita recalls, "and without refrigeration or freezers that was the best and cheapest way to preserve food. After a few years Dad bought the farm from Joe. We had an adobe house with two front rooms , two bedrooms and a kitchen. We carried water from the river until Dad dug a well near the house." To earn extra money, Leandro worked part time for Arthur Jones who lived over near Spring Creek. "I remember when I learned to make tortillas. I was so small I had to stand on a bench to reach the table top. I also remember the good smells of food at Christmas. That was a happy time in the old days, even though we never had store bought toys. My father would carve dolls and baby chairs and wooden dishes. Winter was nice because of the sled. It was so much fun, so smooth and quiet to ride on the sled. That was the best way to travel in those days." ) ) ) J ) J J J J __, .J .J ...) __, ...) ...) J J J J .J Benedita went to first grade at the agency, but thereafter she went to school at the Arroyo, (over the hill and below the present locker plant slaughter house). Fabian Martinez had built a tavern, dance hall, cafe, rooming house, etc. along the railroad tracks one mile west of Ignacio. Benedita liked the Arroyo school better because the teacher could explain things in Spanish, if necessary. In 1910 the Luceros moved to a place on the hill west of Ignacio, then they bought a place in Ignacio in 1911 {the same house where the La Febres now live). That was the year of the flood. Everyone who was at least 5 years old in 1911 remembers the flood . It rained for a week. All the people in the valley got flooded out. "We had to go through deep water in a wagon to get my grandmother out of her house. Many people spent 2-3 days in their attics. Others were lost, especially down along the San Juan." "Chrestino and his parents were our neighbors south of Ignacio for a long time. He was a nice boy. I had known him for a long time and always liked him. In those days there was a dance in Ignacio every Saturday. That was about our only entertainment. We often went to the dances together and knew one another well when we got married. For a year we lived with my parents, then got our own place west of Ignacio near the Pine River Switch (not far from Joe Chavez). We raised a garden, wheat, corn and hay. Most of our shopping was done in Bayfield because prices were cheaper than in Ignacio. 29 �A lime of great sadness came to the Lucero family in 1918. Benedita's mother was one of the thousands in this nation who died of the swine flu that year. Two years later Leandro married Marie Chavez. They had one daughter, Elisa, (now Mrs. Bennie Herrera). Chrestino and Bennedito had 5 children: Ray, Ophelia (Mestas), Helen (Cruz), Lloyd and Chrestino, Jr. In 1925 Chrestino went to Utah for 2 years to work in the mines. He earned good money, saved it, and in 1927 had enough to buy his first car, a new Chevrolet. The Casias bought a place on the hill west of Ignacio soon afterwards. "We bought the land from Arthur Smith, who at that time lived over near Jerry Young's place. We enjoyed our life here. Our kids were good kids. I guess about the only lime we overworked them, at least some of them think so, was in carrying water. For a long time the kids had to bring water from the spring down the hill. Some of them used to say they were going to become hunch-backed from all that carrying, but they didn't." Chrestino died February 16, 1974. For years he had played the guitar and violin well and was frequently asked to play for parties and dances. He will be remembered a long lime for this ability. Benedita still lives at home. Occasionally, she visits her children in Utah and California, but mostly she stays home and spends a little time each day remembering both the good and the bad times of the days long ago. Best wishes to her for many more years of happiness and good memories. April, 1976 -- Shelby Smith 30 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Shelby Smith Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-NC/1.0/?language=en Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-1980 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of biographies, predominantly of residents from the Ignacio Senior Center, based on interviews conducted by Shelby Smith from approximately 1973 to 1980. The abridged interviews were originally published as individual entries in The Thoughtful Years newsletter, published by the Ignacio Senior Center, beginning in 1973. They were later published as a whole in Smith's book: Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley, from which the original scans in this collection have been derived. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Maria Benedita (Lucero) Casias Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1976-04 Subject The topic of the resource Casias, Maria Benedita (Lucero); Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Biography of Maria Benedita (Lucero) Casias based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith. Originally included in the April, 1976 issue of "The Thoughtful Years" newsletter published by the Ignacio Senior Center. Later included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Casias, Maria Benedita (Lucero) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 2 pages Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/ Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/ef9747f447c50d48e2f9c7fde6dd017e.pdf 62ec3c749fcbae27664d373f5db4f14d PDF Text Text Pearl E. Casias (Southern Ute Tribal Elder) My name is Pearl Emily Casias, and I was born on the Southern Ute Indian Reservation in the old Tribal Affairs building. At the time that I was born in the 40s it was called Taylor Hospital. It closed in 1957; it was a Bureau oflndian Affairs hospital. I was raised by my grandparents: Martha Tree and Felipe Lucero. We lived on an 80-acre allotment approximately two miles north of here [Ignacio]. At the time that I was growing up I recall the streets in Ignacio were gravel. There wasn't any pavement and there were gutters on the sides of the roads. But, it was an interesting community. We had a pool hall, and I recall my grandparents going to dances on the weekends at about four places that they used to have dances. So, t must have been a community thing to have social dances well before I was born and during the time that I was growing up. What is now the Ignacio School District bus garage used to be a dance hall. The kitchen appliance warehouse on Main Street was called Rebus Hall-they used to have dances there. It belonged to Mr. Rebus. Then, they had dances at what is now the Head Start building (it used to be the Ute Vocational School), and on some weekends they would have dances in the gym. After they built the T.P. Lounge, they used to have dances in there, also. So, there were four places where people could go to the dances. Most of the community, and from the outlying communities, would come and they would socialize with each other. Some of the tribal members had bands, so they played for one dance hall or another. Occasionally my grandparents would take me, but it wasn't very often. My grandmother would meet with some of the ladies who lived in La Boca and out in the Allison/Tiffany area. So, it was a social dance, but it was also a chance to meet with old friends and, possibly, to make new friends. I was telling an individual that had moved into this area back in the 70s, that I remember walking to Ignacio with my grandparents or with my aunt because we didn't have transportation. In the summer we'd walk, we'd walk two miles. Sometimes on our way back we'd catch a ride with someone who was going our way and they'd drop us off In the fall and during the winter my grandfather would go on the horse to get groceries, or he'd make arrangements with some of the neighbors and he'd ride into town with them. In the spring and early summer my grandparents would ride horses into town and we'd ride with them. We brought empty flour sacks or gunny sacks, put the groceries in them, then put them on the horses for the ride back. I remember the road 516 (that's the road I live on)-it goes from Highway 172 all the way to Bayfield-it was a gravel road. But, County Road 517 that comes right here in front of the Tribal Building it was just a dirt road. It didn't have gravel. After it rained and the people who had cars went over it, it became packed down. So, it was a lot of fun to take your shoes off and walk on the dirt road. There was a theater in Ignacio; it was called the Ute Theater. It's an empty building and an empty lot right now between the Sidekick Lounge and where a real estate office used to be. Mr. And Mrs. Preston (he was a farmer and drove a milk truck for the dairy farmers around the area) ran the theater with their family at night. I remember we'd come down after my grandfather bought a car-we'd come down on the weekends. My grandfather liked Westerns, so we got to see a lot of Westerns. It was real interesting, because you could buy a bag of popcorn �Page 2 of5 for 10 cents and a soda for a nickel. But, you know, those days are long gone. I go to the movies occasionally and for eight dollars you can get a large bag of popcorn and a soda. That's a far cry from the 15 cents for popcorn and a soda. Yeah, things have really changed economically and, I guess, the whole atmosphere of the small town. It's grown quite a bit. I remember they had two dress shops: part of one of the dress shops is part of the grocery store (the Shur-Value) and it also used to be a cafe. There's a place on Main Street called Nuuciu Bible Worship Church, I guess it's called, and that used to be a dress shop. Then, we had a drug store, which was a nice place to go. They had a soda jerk who wore white pants, a white jacket, and a white hat. His name was Mr. Brits; he worked behind the soda fountain and his wife worked on the dry goods side of the drug store. It was fun to go in there. I remember seeing the little soda table, or the little tables, and they had wrought iron chairs. They had stools at the counter, and you could get milkshakes, chocolate malt, or real ice cream (it wasn't ice milk or whatever). So, it was fun coming to town. I remember the bank: Ignacio State Bank. It was run by the Turners, and they lived a block behind the bank. Suzie Turner was Mr. Tuner's wife, and she was a very good friend of my grandmother's. She helped her balance her checkbook. It was fun going into the bank, because people knew each other by first names and it was very 'neighborly,' for lack of a better word. I remember Mrs. Turner was more than happy to help my grandmother, because my grandmother had a checking account. That was real interesting, because !didn't know of too many tribal members that had bank accounts. So, I always thought of my grandmother as being more progressive than some of the tribal members that I knew. A lot of the tribal elders that were her age or older preferred to speak in the Ute language. It was interesting to sit around and listen to what stories they had to tell. When we'd come to town my grandfather would visit with some of his friends, and my grandmother would sit in the grocery store and visit with some of her friends. So, it was real interesting to listen to their stories. It was a whole different era where children were seen and not heard. That was one of the things that we learned when we were growing up. But, Ignacio has gone through quite a change. For as long as I can remember Lawrence Wiseman owned the hardware store, and as he got older his son, Tom, took over. Saul Padia used to work for him, and Saul's wife used to work at the bank as a teller. She was very accommodating for all the people who came into the bank; she was a very nice person. I think Nelly Price was Postmistress when I was very young, and then later on Mr. Pierson became Postmaster. I grew up knowing them as U.S. Postal workers. Mr. Jones owned The Ignacio Chieftain and The Bay.field Blaze. He was the editor of the newspaper, and his shop was where the Dancing Spirit Gallery is today. The pool hall was right next door to The Chieftain office (or the print shop). It was owned by Dan Velasquez. Mr. Lopez (I can't remember his first name) used to manage the pool hall. When you walked into the pool hall there were pinball machines in the front and there was a freezer, so they sold ice cream cones. It was like a convenience store. You could buy canned goods, soda pop, bread, canned lunchmeats, and pork and beans-things like that. And, there was a dividing half; it didn't go all the way up to the ceiling, and behind that were the pool tables and �Page 3 of5 they had some card tables. They apparently played poker and had interesting card games back there. I remember when we were growing up my brother was a pinball fanatic. He always made outstanding scores in the pinball machine game. So, he hung out at the pool hall a lot just to play the pinball machines. And, of course, my grandfather liked to play cards a lot, so he'd take my brother and they'd go to the pool hall together. I have three children: I have two girls and a son. My oldest daughter works part-time. My son works at the casino; he's been there since before we remodeled and it became a casino. He worked in the restaurant before being converted to work in the casino. So, when he went to work in the casino he worked in 'The Cage', and he's been there for 10 years. He worked in the restaurant for about 14 years before that, so he's been working there for 14, going on 15, years. My youngest daughter works in Durango with the Tierra Group, with the Growth Fund. I had an older brother. He died when I was 16. My mother remarried-she divorced my father-so I had a half-brother, and he died two years ago. I don't have any other brothers and sisters. I just have my children and grandchildren. I have five grandchildren: four granddaughters and one grandson. My parents are deceased and, of course, my grandparents are gone, too. I just lost my aunt three years ago; it'll be four years this summer. So, I'm pretty much the matriarch of my family. I tell my children about the way things were when I was growing up. I've seen a lot of changes. Like I was saying, that family that came to live here, I would tell them that I used to walk to town. He'd say, 'Oh no, people already had cars' and 'That's impossible.' So, I would say, 'It might seem impossible to you, but things on the reservation were slower than in mainstream America.' It was in '54 and '55 that we finally had a water-well dug. We finally got running water and electricity and propane. So, it was the mid50s when we finally got the modem conveniences. It's interesting, because my brother and I both grew up hauling water and wood chips, and he had to bring in coal. As soon as we got home from school we changed our clothes and were busy until dinnertime. Then we had other chores, and then we had time for homework. You know, a couple of weeks ago (when there was a cold spell) my water pipes froze. You go from having no conveniences to the conveniences of today and then, all of a sudden, you can't tum on the tap water because the pipes are frozen. And, you think, 'How did I survive before?' I remember going to town after Halloween, and a lot of the townspeople had outdoor facilities, they didn't have running water. There were two places in town to get water. In one section of town all of the people would go over to where the elementary school is. There was a water pump there. So, they got their water there. And, I think, there was a water faucet at the other end of town. There were two places in town where you could get running water. The townspeople also burned wood and coal. After Halloween most of the outhouses had been turned over. Kids would pull tricks and turn over the outhouses. (Must have been chaos during that time!) I think it was during the early to mid-60s that the authors of Native American Programs made grants to rural communities. That's what provided the possibility of the town to receive funding so that they could put in gutters and sidewalks. I think it was in the late 50s, some time during the 50s, that they paved the roads. It's just been recently that progress has come to Ignacio. I think the Tribe has provided a lot of benefits to the community. Having grown up in �Page 4 of5 the community and with children from the two other ethnic groups, you develop friendships. So, the people that live here, I fell, have good relationships simply because they live here. Who knows? Maybe it's just the people that come here that change the atmosphere of a small town setting. I can walk down the street today and½ or¾ of the people I do not know. Of course, there're still the people that I know, who I grew up with. So, the community goes through some changes. During the summer they have the San Ignacio Fiesta at the end of July. It's to honor the patron saint: Saint Ignatius. What I remember when I was a little girl, we'd go to the church services and some of the tribal members would go and they'd help prepare the feast. The Indians and the Hispanics would have this big feast. We'd have what you would consider a huge potluck dinner. There was no charge. The tribal members would provide some of the supplies for this dinner. Some of the tribal men would assist in the cooking and what have you. Everyone would sit down and eat together, and they'd have games in the afternoon and Indian dancing. Some of the tribal elder men would come and they'd drum and sing for some of the young people. And, the young men would perform war dances. Everybody just king of got along together. I enjoyed taking part in the community. Then, in the fall, the Tribe would put on, and we still do (I think it's the 84th) Ute Fair. And, that's for tribal members. They'd have games for adults and children, alike. They'd have a baseball game, tug of war (women against women or men against women). It was a lot of fun to watch, and a lot of the tribal members participated. They brought all of their agricultural produce, livestock, and poultry. I saw turkeys, and rabbits, and chickens. I don't think I saw any guineas. The Tribe would provide prizes for First, Second, and Third. They'd have a big rodeo, and just recently they've started have a huge powwow. So it's kind of gone through an evolution. It's been interesting to see the evolution from what it was then to what it is today-it's dramatically different. Everybody came for the entries: from the west side to the east side of the reservation. They'd get people to come in from the community to judge the arts and crafts, the sewing, the canning, the livestock and poultry, and what have you. They'd have horse races and, like I said, a rodeo-everybody would participate in the rodeo. It's quite different from what it used to be; it's gone through a lot of changes. I remember we had a tribal member that was like the Chief of Police for quite a few years, and he worked really well with the Town Marshall. When we became teenagers we had some friends who owned cars; they came from middle class families, I guess. So, we'd ride around with our friends. There weren't any streetlights in Ignacio when I was a teenager. So, we'd turn the lights off on the car and play 'cat and mouse' with the Town Marshall. They would chase us around through the alleys. It was harmless; we weren't involved in vandalism or destruction of anybody's property. It was just playing 'cat and mouse' with the Town Marshall. I'm sure he knew who we were and the kid who owned the vehicle. They, for some reason, never did catch up with us. I went to school here at the Ute Vocational School until I was in the fifth grade. The Ute Vocational School was both boarding school and day school. Some of us were day school students and we were bussed. The Indian students that came from the Navajo Reservation and the Ute Mountain or Northern Ute Reservations stayed in the dorms. Those ofus that lived here were bussed to the school, and in the evening we rode home on the bus. �Page 5 of5 When I was promoted to the sixth grade, I asked my grandmother if I could go to Ignacio Elementary (I wanted to see what it was like to be in a public school). So I went and I enjoyed it. The following year, when I was promoted to the seventh grade, the schools in Ignacio were consolidated. The school closed down and all of the students went to the public school. So, even though they were boarding school students they went to the public schools. The Ute Vocational School became the Junior High School. It was a joint school. That's why it's called "' 'TI-JT So~ they urillzed ute-Ybcatibfial School for fue Junlor H{gii Sclro6lt ?111, 8th,., atl1ci 9111 grades. All of the elementary students went to Ignacio Elementary, and the high school students were in Ignacio High School. Because of the increase in students (because of the school district becoming joint) they received more funding from the State. They built a new high school. It benefited not only the Indian students it also benefited the district. That happened in '57. me At that time they also closed down the hospital. The government gave the hospital to the Tribe. And, so, the Tribe remodeled the building and converted it into offices. That's where we were located until last fall when they finished this building [the Leonard C. Burch Tribal Affairs Building]. My grandmother was Ute and my grandfather was Hispanic. When we were growing up we learned to speak Ute; that was our first language. Our second language was Spanish. When I went to school (I went to school when I was six years old) I couldn't speak English. Of course, my brother learned to speak English (he was two years older than I), because he was in the third grade when I started school. We carried on a tri-lingual conversation. When we'd get home from school my grandmother would speak to us in Ute, my grandfather would speak o us in Spanish, and we'd respond in English. So, they became familiarized with the English language. They could both speak English, but they weren't fluent or proficient. The more we learned the more they learned. (My grandmother was fluent in Spanish.) It's interesting: the first time I filled out an employment application, I said I speak one foreign language and that's English. Most people chuckle when they read my application or my resume and they see I speak a foreign language: English. Interviewed by Michael G. Miller (VISTA worker) on January 13, 2004. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Michael Miller Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/CNE/1.0/ Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2003-2004 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of twelve biographies written by VISTA worker Michael G. Miller of prominent people in the Ignacio community. Based on interviews conducted by Miller between December 9, 2003 and March 15, 2004. Some contain the additional attribution "for the Ignacio Historical Society." Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Miller, Michael G. Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pearl Casias Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2004-01-13 Subject The topic of the resource Casias, Pearl; Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Biography of Pearl Casias written by VISTA worker Michael Miller and based on an interview conducted by Miller on January 13, 2004. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Casias, Pearl Extent The size or duration of the resource. 5 pages https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/0938f1966092e7db8c38682b6766738d.pdf 90e4e91104c0351ecc6771c79bc27179 PDF Text Text -, ") ") ', ', JUAN RAMON AND CLEO (Vallejo) CHAVEZ } J l i ) J ) ) -, ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ..J ..) Many Canyons drain the east face of the Sambritas Range into the Piedra River. Most of them are narrow and steep, running torrents of water in the spring thaw, then gradually slackening off and drying up by mid summer. One exception is Ignacio Canyon. Partly because of a good spring, water runs in it all year. In 1904 Liberate Chavez and his wife Frances, traveled up the Piedra look.ing for a homestead site. When Liberate saw the flow of water out of Ignacio Canyon, he explored it and found a suitable place for a ranch operation. The house he built beside the creek was made of logs planted vertically in the ground like a stockade. The roof was supported by logs, crossed by poles and willows and sealed with mud. The walls were plastered with mud and the result was a small, but warm and suitable cabin. Distinct bands of blue, yellow and white clay were exposed in the walls of the canyon. The Chavez family and many of their neighbors in the river valley dissolved the clay into a thin calcimine paint and used it to finish the interior walls of their adobe homes. Liberate raised grains and hay and herded up to 250 sheep and 70 goats in the hills around the homestead and up in Brushy Basin which drains into the canyon. Frances devoted much of her time to a large garden which produced most of the family's needs. In sp1te of all his efforts to provide for their needs on the ranch, he found it necessary to work cutting timber, shearing sheep or laboring in the farms in the Piedra Valley for extra income. In the spring of 191 1 Liberate and his brother were working across the river and it began to rain. Spring rains are not unusual in Colorado, but this one wouldn't stop. The rain came in blowing torrents. Liberate and his brother stayed under cover for a day or so and still the rain came. As it continued, Liberate grew afraid. He could picture Frances and his children in the cabin beside Ignacio Creek which was already swollen with the spring thaw. He could imagine it rising higher now. Finally, Liberate could wait no longer. Since there was no chance of fording the river, he went to the D. & R. G. W. Railway bridge and his heart sank when he saw it. The Piedra was a raging, foaming rush of water. All that remained of the bridge was the rails still bolted together and swaying in the wind. Though it was foolhardy, he inched across one of the strings of rails and made his way up the canyon. The family was fine. They had packed food and clothing and were camping on a spot higher up the hill. The house survived, though the creek came close. The rain continued unabated for 11 days. When it stopped, the river had changed course in many places and familiar landmarks had disappeared forever. ....) ....) ...) ...) J ...) At the time of the flood, the Chavezes had three children: Joe, Mary and Juan. Juan Ramon Chavez had been born on August 21, 1910. His parents were married at Blanco, then lived for a while in Rosa before moving to the homestead. One of Juan's earliest childhood impressions of mountain life concerned the cycle of hard times. He recalls, "It was always hard to store enough food and save enough money for the winter. As the weather turned cold you either had enough or you didn't. There, wasn't any we lfare. The store in Rosa might give you credit. Otherwise you were on your own." ...) J J J .J .J A few years after Juan was born a very exciting thing happened in the canyon. The Candelaria•Fowler Lumber Mill was built about a mile below the homestead. The 31 �company built houses for employees, provided a commissary and put up a school house. School was open during summer so that weather would not interfere so much. Liberato worked at the mill and times were easier until suddenly it closed in 1919. The people moved and the school closed. As the years passed, Juan was given more and more responsibility with the flock. "Because of the work we never got to go to school over at Stollsteimer Creek till late in the fall. Then we'd have to quit about April 2oth because the river would get too high to ford." Juan's youngest brother, Dave was born in 1920. In 1925 when Juan was 15, his mother died of pneumonia. "It got hard then," Juan says. "II was all my father and Joe and I could do to take care of the herds and work outside for cash income. There was no more garden." In 1927 Liberate married again. After about two years a daughter was born to them, and shortly afterward Liberato's second wife died also. When this happened, the Chavezes moved out of the canyon lo a rented farm on Stollsteimer Creek. Joe left the farm to work out for wages. Shortly afterward Mr. Chavez left for the same reason. Juan stayed for a while lo help his uncle on the ranch. Haying has always been back-breaking work. It certainly was during Johnny's generation. Early forms of the machinery now used began lo appear on the farms when Juan was a young man working on the ranch. The machinery was set up by the haystacks and required 3 operators, one to throw hay out of the stack, one to feed the machine and one to tie the bales. The 100 pound bales were taken to the depot and shipped out. Juan worked 2 years for the McDonalds. He was paid 50 cents per day. That amounted to $182.50 per year. In the winter he sawed green pinon for firewood. "When the green wood is frozen hard, ii splits easily." Juan couldn't resist a pay raise when he heard about jobs paying a dollar a day over in the San Luis near Del Norte. "I irrigated and helped with haying. When this ended, I got a job as camp tender with the sheep up west of the Rio Grande near Creede. I always enjoyed living up in the high mountains. We made fish hooks out of baling wire and caught some big fish in those creeks." Johnny had several girlfriends, but the one he kept remembering was a girl named Cleo Vallejo, whom he met at his brother Joe's wedding in 1929. "She was very pretty and shy." During the next several years Johnny worked at several jobs including the Forest Service, sheep-herding and clearing land for farmers. In 1938 Johnny and Cleo were married. They lived on Stollsteimer Creek for a while before moving to Pagosa. Later the Chavezes came to Ignacio to help Joe in his shoe repair shop. It wasn't long, however, till Juan was back on the farm where he is today. Cleo's parents were Alex and Marsh Vallejo. She was born in Blanco N.M. on April 9, 1915. Alex was a sheepherder, sheepshearer and farmer all his life. When Clep was 9 months old, her parents came to Ignacio and lived in this area and Oxford all their lives. 32 �,, ,, I"") 'l 'l ,,.., J 'l 'l ) } ) Juan and Cleo were separated for several years during the 1940's and S0's, but they got back together and still live on the farm NW of Ignacio Juan bought in 1945. "We got the farm for $400.00 down. We started with one cow and a pickup. Gradually we built up our stock and raised grain. We've tried sheep and cows and back to sheep." Juan and Cleo have worked hard all their lives and as many neighbors will attest, they have also been good friends, ready to help when help was needed. Juan learned to play the violin and guitar when he was a little boy. His parents ordered instruments through the mail. At first they were a complete mystery to Juan. All he learned, he picked up himself and though times have changed and age takes its toll, Juan's love of music is something no one can take away. ) April, 1976 Shelby Smith ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) } •) ) ) ) J J .J ..J J J J J ._) J_ J ...J .J .J .J 33 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Shelby Smith Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-NC/1.0/?language=en Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-1980 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of biographies, predominantly of residents from the Ignacio Senior Center, based on interviews conducted by Shelby Smith from approximately 1973 to 1980. The abridged interviews were originally published as individual entries in The Thoughtful Years newsletter, published by the Ignacio Senior Center, beginning in 1973. They were later published as a whole in Smith's book: Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley, from which the original scans in this collection have been derived. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Juan Ramon Chavez and Cleo (Vallejo) Chavez Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1975-12 Subject The topic of the resource Chavez, Juan Ramon; Chavez, Cleo (Vallejo) Description An account of the resource Biography of Juan Ramon Chavez and Cleo (Vallejo) Chavez based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith. Originally included in the December, 1975 issue of "The Thoughtful Years" newsletter published by the Ignacio Senior Center. Later included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Chavez, Juan Ramon; Chavez, Cleo (Vallejo) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 3 pages Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/ Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/bba23690118b7331f99a509d2b7836a9.pdf a0e31da66d7665089489df896680523b PDF Text Text JULIUS and MOLLY TOBIAS (Buck) CLOUD "When I was born in 1895, there was no town here - only the depot and the agency and a country store over where the grade school is now. It was all Indian land from Pagosa to Utah. Not many houses. Tribal members lived in tepees and it was a good life. There were tepees all up and down the rivers." There are only the beginnings of Julius Cloud's memories of the old days in the Pine River Valley. Julius was born on May 30, 1895, the son of Edwin and Ruth Cloud. He lives on the same place where he was born three and one half miles south of town. "Ignacio was a field then. John Green used to plow a piece of ground down by the station and I liked to follow along behind and play in the soft dirt." Julius enrolled in the boarding school and then at the Allen Day School and finally, was transferred to the Indian School at Santa Fe, N.M. "It was OK at Santa Fe - not very good food, but we got to meet Indian kids from all over the country. Julian Baker and I and several other Utes were there. We had school and learned to drive a car and played football and baseball, which I really liked." After three years Julius returned from Santa Fe. He and several of his friends started an All Indian Baseball Team. "We played Mancos, Cortez, Pagosa and Silverton and by charging admission to the games, we paid for all of our trips and equipment. We traveled to and from our games in a Model T. No matter how deep the mud was, we never got stuck. Cars aren't that good today. Later-we got a Model A to carry more people, but the Model T was the best car. After we won the championship at Pagosa, we disbanded the team. James Baker was one of our best players. He later got on one of the professional teams in Denver." Julius remembers the store Mr. Burns had up near the Catholic Church. The building later was moved to downtown Ignacio across from the drug store and for a while was used to show the old-fashioned picture shows. Julius liked to go to the pow-wows. Some good ones were held at Navajo Springs, south of present day Towaoc. Julius learned to sing for the dances. He still knows some of the songs, but doesn't participate anymore because "it's too much effort." When he was about 20, the U.S. entered the First World War and Julius was drafted. He and Andy Frost, Frank Baker, George Brown and John Hays were sent to Camp Cody, N.M. for basic training. From there he was shipped to Camp Dixon, New Jersey, and from there to England and France. On the trip east, Julius' troop stopped in Chicago. He had never seen such big buildings or such smoky skies. Julius remembers, "It was so bad they had to turn on electric lights during the day and railroads ran overhead on platforms two or three levels high." As they left New York Harbor on the troop ship, everyone watched the Sta Lue uf LiiJerly slowly disappear. On the ocean Julius could noo the curvature of the earth and from the looks of it, couldn't understand why the water didn't run off somewhere. When the ship arrived in England, many of the troops had the influenza, some died. Everyone was quarantined for 21 days. Crossing the English Channel was like crossing a big river. France was a green country. All the roads were lined with trees which overshadowed the road. At every crossroads were religious statues. The wine districts were quite a sight. 34 �.., .., .., ,, .. ' ' ' ) ' ~) l ' ' -) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) J ) _) J _) J J J There were whole hillsides covered with vineyards and piles of grapes ready for the wine vats. Life at the front was pretty bad. Each soldier carried an 80 lb, pack with a short shovel for trench-digging. One of the horrors of WWI was the poison gas. As a part of training, the soldiers were sent into a room to experience a small dose of gas, Julius says, "I cheated. After about 8-10 minutes they let us out. Everyone but me was coughing and crying and struggling to get his breath, I had hid my head under my coat and breathed through my clothes. When the officers saw me, they said, "What's the matter with that Indian Chief? He didn't feel it." There were soldiers from many nations involved in the war. Julius recalls, "the Germans wore green uniforms; the Americans had khaki, Some had grey with red buttons. I think they were the British, Sometimes the shelling would be so bad that the ground would shake. A few times I felt like I should say 'Goodbye America."' Sometimes during the three years Julius while was in France, he doubted he would ever get home a.gain. After a long time of waiting, Julius and one of his friends got leave to go to Paris, expecting it to be a happy relief from the front, but Paris was a grim city, overcrowded with refugees and short of food. "We had to stand in long lines just to get black rye bread. Julius also remembers there was no real Christmas in France. One year all we had for Christmas dinner was bread, bacon and oatmeal." In 1930 Julius married Molly Tobias Buck, They had six children. The oldest was Neil, then Jerry, Elliot, Darwin, Irene and Renee. Darwin died when he was about 20, All the others survive. Life was a hard in the 1930's, but Julius says he and his family got along just fine. A dollar bought a lot in 1930. He worked as a jockey for several years and enjoyed this work very much, "When I rode for people around Ignacio, I got fifty cents every time I won a race. When the tracks opened up in Durango and Cortez, I got $2.00 and $3.00 for winning. Later Julius did some farming and some sheepherding and was on the police force. He worked as a maintenance engineer at a school in Dulce for a while. Now he leases his land and stays on the home place. Some of Julius best memories are of the years when he was a boy growing up with Max Watts and Martin Hayes. We liked to play in the water down at the river all summer and fish and make bows and arrows and run in the woods. It was a happy life. This May Julius will celebrate his 80th birthday. For a person of that age he's amazingly strong and healthy. Shelby Smith, January, 1975 J .) J J J J J J J J J J 35 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Shelby Smith Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-NC/1.0/?language=en Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1973-1980 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of biographies, predominantly of residents from the Ignacio Senior Center, based on interviews conducted by Shelby Smith from approximately 1973 to 1980. The abridged interviews were originally published as individual entries in The Thoughtful Years newsletter, published by the Ignacio Senior Center, beginning in 1973. They were later published as a whole in Smith's book: Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley, from which the original scans in this collection have been derived. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Julius Cloud and Molly Tobias (Buck) Cloud Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1975-01 Subject The topic of the resource Cloud, Julius; Cloud, Molly Tobias (Buck) Description An account of the resource Biography of Julius Cloud and Molly Tobias (Buck) Cloud based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith. Originally included in the January, 1975 issue of "The Thoughtful Years" newsletter published by the Ignacio Senior Center. Later included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cloud, Julius; Cloud, Molly Tobias (Buck) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 2 pages Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/ Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Shelby https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/25d99f8b3b18bc4a91f7517106d26511.pdf f0f2fa1d2290e406eb0a52a3326ada58 PDF Text Text Neil Cloud (Southern Ute Tribal Elder) My name is Neil Buck Cloud; I'm the NAGPRO [Native American Graves Protection] coordinator for the Southern Ute Tribe at the current time. I was born at Towaoc, CO. At that time the Southern Ute Tribe did not have a hospital here [Ignacio]. So all the mothers had to go over to Towaoc to give birth; that's where a hospital was. We didn't have a hospital. A year or two later Taylor Hospital was built; which functions as the Southern Ute Tribal Building. It's an old building. Then, when I was born over there, I came back. We didn't have roads like this. It used to be gravel roads. It was winter and they said they had to deliver me. They walked part of the way, most of the way, through all that snow. Where the current BIA building is, there used to be an old building that was made originally out of wood. And, that burned down with all the tribal records. Finally, they built another one right under it. There's a tree still standing there that you will notice in old pictures. The museum currently has pictures of the Utes standing there. That was the old BIA building. When they built the new BIA building that was in 1940 ... somewhere in that area. And, when I was growing up, I used to play there; I remember that as a boy. We used to play, at that time Billy Rock and I, we used to play in the foundation; that's what I remember. At that time, our fathers were the Southern Ute Tribal Policemen. And, if you look right off north there, the jail is still standing there: the little cement building that you see. If you look north, it's still there. There were houses towards the south; those were the houses where our parents lived. And, there were a few sheds (warehouses) a little bit to the west ofus, southwest. Two buildings I think it was, or three ... huge: we used to all go to there and play. There used to be a whole mess of sheep pelts in there. During that time the tribe had sheep (we owned the sheep). Also, during that time, individual families had sheep and there was a Southern Ute Sheep Association, also, which we owned together. Every spring we used to take them up to Williams Creek and north ofVallecito Dam in that National Forest area. We had trouble with bears, and we had to have a quota [of sheep] for the National Fore st. We had to purchase 30,000 more. So, I don't know how many total we had, because there were several families. But, over the following ears, we kept saying that bears killed our sheep. Finally it added up and we had bucks. I guess they got old also, because they died. We had, I don't know 50 or 100 head of bucks, and we kept them separate. Well, that's my experience. During the time when I heard these stories, the Indians were still riding horses at that time. Well, there was a store there next to that office that burned down; where the Ute Park entrance is today. A little south of there was a warehouse. The Indian agents used to say that Hans Aspas was the one who had it, or one of them. And, over a period oftime (when he was in charge), the way the story goes, he used to get the wagons that were given to us by the United States Government. Over that period he accumulated a lot of money. And, that's how Ignacio became the little city of Ignacio. That part is just hearsay, you see. I just heard it and didn't see it for myself I just heard the people talk about it. �Page 2 of9 One thing is very important according to the story of how Ignacio was built. First, it was supposed to have been built in Tiffany, CO; which is about 15 miles southeast oflgnacio. And, something happened over there and they moved it to this area: the Pine River area. Well, there's a slaughterhouse where the Town is supposed to be, over the hill. I've been there, there's a lot of debris. The first one (I forget the Spanish guy's name), he was the very first guy to build a saloon. The pieces of wood that you find are part of the foundation of that saloon. And then, during that time, something happened. They moved to where the current Ignacio is, and he had to move his saloon back down. That's why there are pieces of debris there; I've been there. I don't know what condition it's in now. If you walk on over, there's a creek there. If you walk along, there's still trash from that period. There's a big question about that: how Ignacio came about and why they moved it. I never knew, never was told. That's why I say it is hearsay ... I wasn't really involved. It happened before my time, way before my time, about the time when the allotments were being created. But, I did see the Utes riding their horses right in front of that big building that they call the Legion Hall. Right across the corner from there was a drugstore, as I remember. And, I remember the druggist's name: it was Britt, and I remember that because he sold ice cream. Us little guys used to go get ice cream there. Every time we went to town that was the first place we went to. And, right across it was the Legion Hall; it's still standing today. That's where the Spanish people put on dances. That was the only big building and that's where they used to have dances (right next to the police station, where the hitching post was). That's where the Utes used to tie their horses and their wagons. There used to e a whole bunch of them where the station is today. Also, the Ignacio High School was built where the grade school is. It was a tall building: two stories. That's where the Anglo kids went to school and some of the Ute kids went there, too. I went to this one here (we had an Indian school, also). The boarding school. .. during the early days we lived so far from the school that we were all scattered all throughout this reservation. We didn't have no buses during those days. Some of them had to ride horseback when they went to school. Some of the Utes went to school over towards Mesa Mountains; which is about a good 10 or 15 miles from here. There was another country school over there. Some of them had to suffer every winter riding horses to get to school. And, there's another Indian school up over northeast from here, about 15 miles out. But, there's a little country school. .. some of those people went to that one. It was muddy and they had a rough time being out in the country. That's why the Bureau of Indian Affairs built this Indian school. According to my dad, who went to school here, this boarding school was ... I still remember it; it was functioning a few years back. But, they built an additional part to it and it got bigger. Whereas the old one was funny looking: narrow and long. It was divided: one side was the girls' section and the other side was for the boys. There was a sign there, when it was built, and I remember seeing it. I believe it said, '1889'; that's when my dad went to school, when he was a little guy. They said his dad came and got home and never told them he was putting him in school. According to his story, he just thought he was going for a ride with his dad and he was happy. But, he left him at that boarding school and he cried. When he was over �Page 3 of9 there, I guess he cried so much that when one of the girls got him, they calmed him down and took care of him. He was the littlest one there. That's the way he was healthy about telling that story; I remember that part. 'My dad did me wrong by not telling me,' he'd say. 'I'm still mad at my dad (which was Edwin Cloud).' I remember him [Edwin Cloud], too, vaguely. He had braids, but I really didn't know him too well. They just pointed him out and said that's my grandfather. That's how I knew him. But, I never did know him too well, because he lived down by Spring Creek and I lived where my mother lived ( down three miles south oflgnacio). My mother's maiden name was Buck: Molly Buck. My grandmother was married to Antonio Buck, Sr.; he was the son of Charlie Buck. Actually, 'Buckskin Charlie' was not his real name. His real name was Charlie Buck. That's where the misconception comes out. Not very many people know his real name. 'Charlie Buck' would have been his name in the Census, if there were any when he was born. That was way before the creation of this reservation. Well, he used to live in Colorado Springs. That's where most of the pictures came out of; they were taken over there. But, he was moved here. Some of the Utes didn't have no birth certificates, because they were born at home. While he was growing up, he also served as a scout with the Fourth Cavalry. The cavalry, the soldiers had to keep the Utes in the interior of the reservation, to isolate them (so the Government said). He did serve with the Fourth Cavalry. (I don't know where they were stationed). As a scout, I guess he used to kill deer for the soldiers to eat. He'd butcher them and skin them; he'd save the hide, and right then he'd start tanning it. When the soldiers saw him that's how his name was created: the soldiers called him 'Buckskin' and used his first name as his last name. I guess he liked his nickname. Being a scout is king of a prestige position, important. He felt he was an important guy, so he kept the name. I don't know how many years he served with the soldiers, and that's how he became 'Buckskin Charlie.' Only we family members knew his real name: Charlie Buck. The Tribal Council, for a while, continued to claim that the family of Charlie all died off But, there are still a lot of them living. They even have a newspaper clipping telling about his commission in the Fourth Cavalry. Now that's not the Fort Lewis ... I don't know if that's the same bunch. With the creation of the reservation we were moved so many times. When my grandfather was living in Colorado Springs there was still a spring over there. The Garden of the Gods: that's where they lived. He roamed the whole eastern Rockies, all the way up to Boulder. He was there when the first covered wagons came across the prairie. What they call west of Boulder, these big rocks, high hills, it's called ... they called them ... I'm mixed up about them. Well, there's a Ute trail up there. It's a high place and that's where he was watching the first covered wagons coming across the prairie. He had never seen anything like that, so he waited for it ... a whole bunch of Utes waited for it. At that time, looking east you could see way out across the prairie: 80 miles ... 100 miles out, I guess, from that high point. So, they waited all day. Finally, it came to the foothills where the Colorado University is. And, they came down to meet them (they were curious to meet them, I guess). While he was there he met the wagon master and told the wagon master ... he said (well, I guess through sign language), �Page 4 of9 'these things [wagon wheels] aren't going to make it through those steep hills (which were mostly horse trails).' Some were almost 45 degrees steep. He told the wagon master, he said, 'this is the end of your trip, your travels. Your wagons will never make it over the hill.' 'You might as well plan on staying here,' he told them. 'Make your home here and we'll protect you from the enemies that come around.' There were Sioux to the north, Arapahoe and other tribes that claim that that's their homeland. They could stay on one condition: he told the wagon master, 'if you're going to stay here you have to build a house of wisdom (is what they called it).' I wrote a composition about what I heard. So, that was the beginning. The 'house of wisdom' later became the University of Colorado. So that's why it's there; it was that mutual agreement during that first encounter. That was Charlie Buck in that area. Let's see ... Denver was being built at that time. And, during that time there was that militia, Colorado Militia, which was in authority. While Denver was already being built there was another little town southeast of Colorado called Centennial. All that San Luis Valley was nothing but creeks and was home to the beaver. And there was a trapper, a Canadian trapper I think, that came into that area. All that San Luis Valley clear up to Nebraska (the Platte River) was the home of the beaver. Also, according to his [Charlie Buck's] description looking east, that whole valley was just black specks. The way he described those black specks was they looked like the flies in the fall time. Those were the buffalo, as far as he could see. I remember that description. That's how he described it. In the wintertime, when it gets cold, the flies have a tendency to come into your home and land on your wall so that it's dark ... that's the way he described it. Also, according to that picture, Centennial was a small town. Well, during that same period the Colorado Militia was out. The Colorado Militia was sponsored by the City of Denver. They were, I believe ... according to the story, separate. And, they were the ones that created the massacres in that area. Of course, in that movie it depicts that other guy, and they try to decommission the one that was supposed to be in charge. So, there was a friction there. But, according to the story, later they add the one that was authorized to be the commander in San Luis Valley had a fight with the Colorado Militia commander. So, he was chased out of that country, because he killed people in cold blood. They saw that happen right in the streets of Denver. When a wanted Indian was walking in the streets, he shot him in the back. That was the turning point: the pioneers didn't like the style of his torture. When the man was trying to turn himself in and he just shot him in the back, is how he confronted him. Well, what brought it out was in Cripple Creek they found a lot of gold. First, that was where our reservation was big, and they discovered the gold in Cripple Creek. Well, they said, 'move the savages out West.' So, we were rounded up and we were moved. Our first agency was built down in Albuquerque, New Mexico. There were Spaniards in that Santa Fe area, also the Pueblos were too close. And, the Utes being hunters and picking berries didn't fell good being cooped up in a tight place. There was all that friction: the Pueblos were having trouble with the Spanish, too. A lot of things were happening down in New Mexico. The Utes didn't like it, and I guess we were moved to La Vida, back to La Vida. Well, we were there around Trinidad; there're Ute names in that area. I guess when we was there we were moved again, to Pagosa. Well, we were supposed to become farmers and self-supporting. �Page 5 of 9 Okay, Pagosa Springs is a high-altitude little town. That's when the Fort Lewis was built there, the first Fort Lewis. I believe the Fourth Cavalry, and maybe the Eighth too, that bunch ... Later I heard the Buffalo Soldiers were attached there, too. When we were there we complained to the government that we cannot grow food. Vegetables would rot. Besides, it was too cold for the vegetables. So, we were moved to this area where the Pine River is. Well, I've got to go back. When we was in the La Vida area, there was a river called 'Los Pines', which is still there today on the map. Okay, when we were moved from Pagosa to here, this Pine River Valley, it was called 'Los Pines.' So, today we have two Los Pines Rivers. That Spanish name followed us here; I don't know how that happened. It followed the Utes. So, today this Pine River Valley is known as the Los Pines River, but some ofus prefer to call it Pine River. Well, that's when the creation oflgnacio happened, because where I live (three miles north oflgnacio) there's that Spanish trail; it goes across my field. From Santa Fe all the way up, it goes across Ignacio Peak right there (that's where we call Cedar Ridge). I think it follows the railroad tracks here ... the D. & R.G. [Durango & Rio Grande0 that used to run through Ignacio (it runs quite a ways close to Oxford). It goes straight west, all the way to Weasel Skin Bridge. That's where the Spanish trail went. And then, from over there (the Weasel Skin Bridge is located on the Animas River), on the west side of the river it goes straight north; right where the Southern Utes are building the A-LP [Animas-La Plata Project]. Well, right where that [Home] Depot is ... the new store ... that Wal-Mart ... right south of there, there was a highway, and on the left side was a big rock as a marker for the Spanish trail. It went west, northwest, right where the A-LP is being built. And, it goes all the way west. Somewhere east of there it goes toward Delta, and then one goes south towards Towaoc. That's the way the Spanish trail went: it goes all the way up north to Grand Junction. And, as I was saying, there was a third route that cut west, a short cut they called it. The one that goes through Palisade, that was the short cut to the one that went to the gold fields of California. This one over here by Mancos Creek, we called it 'Target Tree' in the Ute language; that's what it translates to. There was only one tree. But, the way the elders came up with that they called it 'Target Tree.' So, that's what it's called today. Well, actually, when the Utes came through they always shot that tree. So, during that time it had a lot of arrows stuck up in it. When the Spanish words came to this area, the Ute language got mixed up with the Spanish. Like 'caba' and caballo,' and some other names. So, what we're speaking here is not Ute: it's colloquial, mixed, a hybrid language. We lost our language a long time ago. There's a bunch ofUtes up near Ouray that still speak the original Ute language. Eddie Box, he's still alive today, he knows some of that ... the old words. There are different words for the same things. There are a few here who are still alive. Clifford Eagle is another one that I know who might know some of those original Ute words. The ones over there at Ute Mountain have more speakers. But, the language has changed; the Ute language has changed its color. Today, according to the young generation (I listen to the radio, the Ute word of the week), parents don't teach their kids the correct way. I was involved with the language. The real Ute language is spoken softly. The suffix in a word is the tricky one. These words sound alike, but the suffix changes. So, when you hear that word you have to be careful with the tail: there's a little sound added to it. �Page 6 of9 *** My father's name was Julius Nash Cloud. He spent most of his time at this Indian school. And, this school during that time only went up to the sixth grade. So, he stayed here year-round, I believe, until he got to the sixth grade. From there he had to go to seventh grade, but there was no seventh grade school nearby. The only place there was a seventh grade was in Santa Fe: Santa Fe Indian School, and that's where he was transferred. So, during the early years he was so far away he had to ride a horse to come back. It wasn't as easy as today, when you can drive a few hours to get down there. But, during that time it took weeks, maybe, just to go the one direction. Well, he stayed there all the years. During the summer, when he didn't have school, they used to take him to the San Luis Valley to make spending money. Over there they used to pick beets. When he was there, that's when World War I broke out. So, during that time he was at the right age to get drafted ... he got drafted into the Army. He never cam home: he was too far away. But, the government made it a point for him to come home. I guess they had the automobile then. But, the government had him come back and say good-bye to his family. I guess he came back for a week, just to see his morn and dad because he was going. He went overseas. That's the part I translated for him, because the Ute Museum has a story on him. I didn't know what he experienced. I read what he wrote. Some of the things that he described weren't really the way he described them in his report. The real thing was that the feelings of the soldiers ... the farmer that he was with, the Anglo farmers, because he was drafted they were all bunched together and they had never been outside of the United States. It was the first time they had ever been in the East. And, they had that funny feeling about being moved over the ocean. They never saw an ocean that big before. Some of them cried and some of them didn't want to go. They were scared: they didn't know where they were going, nobody ever told them where they were going. They were just being herded onto that big ship, like cattle. Maybe, according to his story, it would have been all right if they were told. But, there was a vague idea there was a war going on with Germany, and a lot of them didn't know where Germany was, either. That's the way the soldiers were. That's why they were crying for their families. That's not the way it is today, because we have a lot of tourists. We go touring around the country, to see the country. In the early days it was so hard to travel, so we had to stay within our home area, within a three-mile radius, or five mile or ten mile radius of our homes. Durango was 20 miles away and that was kind of difficult, but the D. & R.G. (that little train that came through here) took some of the people to Durango. It also went all the way around to Alamosa. That was a big help to the families: the train. Yeah, I rode on it too, by the way. It was kind of a smooth ride, but all you could hear was the sound of the wheels: the clink-clink. Kind of neat ... it was better than riding on a wagon: all that rough riding. The train was real smooth, but all you could hear was the wheels all the way to Durango. The clink-clink and then the whistle: that's what I experienced. *** I finished here ... that's when it was called the Ute Vocational School. It was like home to me, because that's where I got adapted to that life. Yes, I did graduate from there. There were Navajos here, also. There was a day school for the parents, and then during that time there was a school bus. Some of those buses would come everyday to the school, but some ofus we stayed there. There were no school buses that went into the areas where some ofus lived. Not like today: now we've got a whole mess of school buses down in Ignacio. There were other kids, �Page 7 of9 Anglo kids, who were in the same fix. They had to come the hard way: they'd walk or they rode a horse in. Some of the lucky ones, if they could drive, had their parents bring them in everyday. It was the same for us up here: the buses brought some of us and dropped us off at the school, and some ofus had to stay; which was easy, because we didn't have to put up with those kinds of hardships. So, I just adapted to it, and that's why I say that it was my home. I got used to the routine. Well, I don't know, it wasn't cruel like what I've been hearing on the news with the other Indian schools in the United States that were really rough. The kids were roughly treated. That must have been before my time. Yes, we were disciplined. The best part of growing up is being disciplined if you can't behave, because there are rules to follow. As ling as you follow those rules, though, you're all right. Well, when I went to the service I had a piece of cake in the service. I went in '55; I was drafted into the Navy. Well, I was in Boulder during that time. I got six deferments. At first it was a police action [in Korea], but then the United States never declared war. During that period they never declared war officially ... not like in World War II. World War II was when I was over here and kids were disappearing. But, I didn't know there was a war with Japan; that's where they were going. And, a lot of the Navajo kids that were here were orphans. During World War II we had to go through their trunks. The matron was here; that's who signed as their parents. So all their belongings, when they got killed in the South Pacific, came back here. Greg Pinto was one that I remember; he was one of the big boys. Greg Pinto and several others never made it back. He was killed overseas and the only thing that came back was his trunk. But, I didn't understand those things really too well: why they [the trunks] were all coming back. That was during World War II. But, the United States declared war on Japan right after December 7th; that was official. That's how I perceived it: the United States didn't declare war on another country [Korea]. There was no chance for us to go over there and fight, because we had no alibi to shoot somebody. That's the way some ofus perceived it. I got on the U.S.S. Conway (aircraft carrier): Seventh Fleet, 10477. That aircraft carrier was a ship that never traveled alone. We had the whole Seventh Fleet, a whole armada; which was like a big city on the sea. We made it as far as the tip of South America going overseas. We got there on Christmas Day until finally we got the dispatch. Then, we had to go to the Philippines. So, we did an about-face. Well, I didn't exactly stay two years like I was supposed to. I came out after 18 months, because the government said we could be dismissed early. Well, I wasn't officially out: I had to be in the Reserves. I am classified A-1, which means I can still be called back. So, even today, I guess if they need me, I could still get in ... in case of an emergency_ I have a friend ... a colonel (retired), and that's what happened to him. That's how I know that the United States government is calling people back. Well, ifwe don't have to go through all that boot camp, then those ofus who are in good physical condition can still go back. According to our aptitude tests those who are up there have to train the others. �Page 8 of9 Well, with most ofus draftees (I was with a Texas Company), most ofus came out of colleges. When we got into the regular Navy, the career sailors just hated our guts. They felt like killing us, because we got in there and took that aptitude test for rank. For most of us we passed it: it was a piece of cake for us, and that was they reason they didn't like us. They wanted us out. Whereas, they had spent 16 years trying to make that same grade over and over. That was the friction. Then, the government says if we re-enlist we'd be given so much rank, be given so much money. It was on some of our minds. But, we would have never survived due to the condition, because that was how they felt [the career sailors]. We didn't want to stay. We'd rather come back home. Those ofus in college could make a living back here, not in the military. Besides, we weren't even at war. Now, that deal with the Marxists in the 60s, I didn't understand that too well in the beginning. The draft-dodgers were right. I came to my senses. If you get drafted, you have to go or spend five years in the penitentiary; which is better than feeling guilty. There was no declaration of war behind your back. We had no justification. If the United States had declared open war on another country, then we'd be justifiable ... have a justifiable condition to back it up. There was no justification for it, and a lot of them got killed for nothing. When I went in I didn't have no insurance, either. If you died at sea, which was supposed to be hazardous duty, you got extra money. I didn't get my G.I. Bill, either. A lot of us didn't get it. We were just there, and when some ofus got out we didn't have no insurance. Nothing ... not even a G.I. Bill. Today you've got to be crippled 30% to get any compensation. But even that much you can't get anything. The Agent Orange guys are creating big hospital bills, the kids are coming out deformed, and the government won't do anything for them ... giving them the run-around. The military is fine all right. The Navajos, the code-talkers, make it sound like it was a violent situation during World War II. But, there was a justification for that: the United States declared war on Japan. Whereas in our situation, there wasn't. So, why? And, besides, we were drafted; we didn't volunteer. That was the first time the Navy ever drafted. We still had to serve our six years. I finally got my discharge in 1961. Well, you have to be pretty tough to get up there on the aircraft carrier. I was in the S-1 Division, which was the backbone of the whole Fleet. I can go anywhere: Dispersement, Personnel. .. I was in the electronics part of it. The ones that really go through strict training are the submarine guys, because they have to know what to do. Well, we were trained the same way. We used to operate almost all the anti-aircraft guns. We had the '58-Dutch' anti-aircraft. I kind ofliked to operate that: the '58-Dutch.' Well, we had the regular anti-aircraft, too. It's funny .. .ifthe man on the radar got shot, we just filled in. That's the way it was. For loading, if one of the men went down, we just switched over and took his place ... until we all got wiped out [laughs]. Well, it was teamwork. I didn't have to be taught all that stuff over again, because I already learned it in the boarding school. I already knew how to wash my clothes. That's why I say it was a piece of cake. If one ofus messed up, we all got punished together. In the Navy, ifwe got punished, we had to go march at two o'clock in the morning all the way up to reveille. By that time we were so sleepy. Then, we were taught in a classroom with a screen, a projector; that's how they lectured us. Well, I tell people, for eight weeks I was a 'dumb Indian,' an 'idiot,' and some other �Page 9of9 Afto..- ts ~rarlna+1·on 1 bu"d "'"ill"'" On+ +l-..,+ nrnc, vvu~ O" 1v .p,....,. 1· ah+ nr.c>olrs uu 1., a11+l-.at r>hang d that'" nrhat vv tell these people. I'm not hot0headed ... I can take it (I took a lot of them). J.J_U, J. \..I~ • .J..IU.L, l,UJU,l, J.J.J.J .l.VJ. 0 V b 1-L VVVVJ."-- • LVJ. L J_ l,J..l. \..IJ..l J.J. 0 V .•• J_ ~ I experienced the military and the boarding school, but that other stuff about Ignacio is just hearsay; I didn't experience it myself People talked about it and I listened to them. Of course, when I was a little guy I didn't listen. I didn't think it was really important. But today, I would k11ow ifl had listened. I didn't do what I was supposed to ... I feel guilty. I though all the people I k11ew and saw were all still going to be alive, forever. That's the way I perceived it. All the people that I had contact with, I thought they were going to be around forever. I thought everything was going to be the same. Come to find out, they're gone. *** Interviewed by Michael G. Miller, VISTA worker, on January 30th, 2004. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Michael Miller Interviews Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/CNE/1.0/ Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2003-2004 Subject The topic of the resource Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Collection of twelve biographies written by VISTA worker Michael G. Miller of prominent people in the Ignacio community. Based on interviews conducted by Miller between December 9, 2003 and March 15, 2004. Some contain the additional attribution "for the Ignacio Historical Society." Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Miller, Michael G. Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Neil Cloud Biography Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2004-01-30 Subject The topic of the resource Cloud, Neil; Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Description An account of the resource Biography of Neil Cloud written by VISTA worker Michael Miller and based on an interview conducted by Miller on January 30, 2004. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Ignacio, Colorado; Southwest Colorado Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cloud, Neil Extent The size or duration of the resource. 9 pages