https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/b21418dca45659a1e6631b31a07ac0f3.jpg e1e68a94b7f4ad7d3d76363417bfbc2e https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/2c9d488bd746621562cf3e5d402919f8.mp3 2bdc6648c0d2b1a800fcffbb2df3f2e7 https://voicesofignacio.cvlcollections.org/files/original/1d3309cb13ba6b7604e332409ad4ec67.pdf 789f586a4ed9027d7914506bfa88cb42 PDF Text Text Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 My name is Liz Wheelock and I am conducting an interview for the Ignacio Oral History Project entitled, “Voices of the Ignacio” at the Ignacio Community Library on February 5, 2016. I have with me the namesake of the McClanahan Community Room and a volunteer of the library, who has graciously permitted me to interview her. Please tell me your name, your birth date and how you came to live in Ignacio, Colorado. McClanahan: My name is Jean McClanahan and my birthdate is May 2, 1924. I was born in Ignacio. Wheelock: How did your family come to move here? McClanahan: My grandparents came here from Missouri in 1904. Wheelock: That is wonderful and what brought them here? McClanahan: I really don't know. They just wanted a change I guess. I’ve heard it was my grandmother's health and one person said she had lost her first born child and she was so depressed that grandpa thought a change would be good but why Ignacio I have no idea. Wheelock: And where did they settle? McClanahan: Right here. Wheelock: In the town of Ignacio? McClanahan: 2 miles north of Ignacio that's where I live. Wheelock: Oh my goodness! So you are on the homestead? McClanahan: I live on part of it. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: Did they have a lot of land? What did they do? McClanahan: They farmed. They bought it and had already been homesteaded. They bought the land. They bought a hundred and 20 acres bordering the reservation, later they added 80 acres more across the road to the County Road and 5 acres of that was the school but they bought the other 75 acres. So he had quite a bit of land. Wheelock: Did they raise cattle? McClanahan: No, I don’t think they raised any cattle just hay and grain. I am sure he had milk cows, but as far as cattle, I don't think so. Wheelock: So did you go to school in Ignacio? What was school like? McClanahan: We learned everything; not only reading writing and arithmetic but we learned oral hygiene. We learned stuff like that. We had to keep our fingernails clean and brush our teeth and that kinda stuff. We learned the names of our teeth. You know, first and second grade. Wheelock: What was your childhood like before you started school? McClanahan: I don't remember much about it. We lived on the farm. I remembered we went to a country school up there. It was on the corner of my granddad's land. Evidently, it was easier to get to school here than it was to go there and it was about the same distance. They used that country school for all kinds of things: dances, box suppers, pie socials and evangelists would come through. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 They just used it for everything. I think everybody attended everything because that was their social life. Wheelock: Do you have brothers and sisters? McClanahan: I had three brothers. Wheelock: Older? Younger? McClanahan: One older, two younger. Wheelock: Are they here also? McClanahan: No, one just passed away. The oldest passed away 20 years ago. My other brother is in Cincinnati where his son lives. Wheelock: Let's go back to school. Let's talk about first and second grade. You went to school at the elementary school at the end of the block? McClanahan: Well you’ve seen the pictures of the old school, the tall building. Half of the building was stone blocks and the other half was stucco. It was two-story and went 3rd through 12th. 1st and 2nd grade-we had another building, it was… 1st and 2nd grade was in one half of it. The other half Mrs. Leonard taught Spanish kids to speak English. Wheelock: Where was it located? McClanahan: Right here on this property… no, not here- across the road where the other school was on that property. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: So they tore down that property and put a school that we now have there which is now a Community Center. Well, that is interesting. So even K-12 was there? McClanahan: No kindergarten. It was 1st through 12th. Wheelock: You went to school there also, right? What kind of sports and what kind of things did they have in high school there? McClanahan: I did not go to high school here. When I finished eighth grade my dad was working for the government and they transferred him to Towaoc, so I graduated from high school in Cortez. Wheelock: Did you notice any change when you came back? McClanahan: Well, not much. I came back about 10 years later. I think. Of course some change but it was still a small town. Wheelock: Was it still the School like it was before? So when did that change? McClanahan: I think they built the new Junior High. They built it first and Mr. Palmer made the bricks for that school. He made them right up close to where the Patio is now. I don't remember, my brother was 36, I believe it was in the late 50s when they built the Junior high and then Mr. Deeds came. Can find out when he was here in the 60s. Around 1965 they built it the high school and it was still the elementary, down here. They tore down the old building put the new elementary down there. That must have been about… about 1960. Because… Cindy was one of the… it was pretty new when Cindy started, they had �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 kindergarten. Cindy was born in ‘57 so it would’ve been about 62 or early 60s. Wheelock: Did you meet Butch here? McClanahan: I came back here. I was working at the store. He was a butcher at the store and I got a job at the store. Wheelock: A buddying romance? McClanahan: We worked together for many many years. Wheelock: You didn't own it at that the time? McClanahan: No, we didn't buy it till 1965. We both worked there for 20 years before we bought it. Wheelock: And who was the owner of that at that time? McClanahan: Mr. Lunsford. Wheelock: Okay. McClanahan: He was the one that started it as a locker plant and then he added groceries. He gradually added more and more. Wheelock: What did you do? McClanahan: I was a bookkeeper. I had gone to business school. Wheelock: So from 12th grade you went to school in Cortez. You said in Cortez, then you went to college? McClanahan: I went to Barnes Business School. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: And where was that? McClanahan: Denver. Wheelock: In Denver, and how many years was that? McClanahan: Just one. Wheelock: Then you came back here? Was there a reason? McClanahan: My folks had moved back here by then. Wheelock: Were they retired? McClanahan: No, Dad got transferred back over here. Wheelock: And that's when you met Butch? And when did you get married? McClanahan: Oh, we got married and ‘53 but we didn’t start dating for a while. He had another girlfriend and I had another boyfriend. Wheelock: (laughs) And you bought the place? Were you already married? How did that come about? McClanahan: Yes we were married. We had been married for 12 years. We married in ‘53. We had been married for 13 years and Mr. Lunsford tells us he's not feeling very good and he wants to go to a lower altitude. And he wanted to sell it and we worked for him for so many years. He could see that we would make a success of it. So he sold it to him and gave us a good deal. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: And you've had it... that's a wonderful place! McClanahan: Yes we loved it. We got up every morning till late at night. We like that store. Wheelock: What did you and Butch do when you were first married? What were the pleasures that you did for enjoyment? McClanahan: We were good friends with a couple. We played cards with them. Went to dances on Saturday night. We went to their place for dinner and they went to our place for dinner. You know we had a good relationship with them. Wheelock: Was a train still going through at the time? McClanahan: No, it quit about 1959. Wheelock: Had you seen it in your early years? Did you ever ride it? McClanahan: No, I never did. I don't know why, I just never did. Didn’t have an occasion to. We always had a car. We went to Durango and I never had any reason to go to Durango other than with me parents. My grandparents lived in there- one set of my grandparents lived there. My mother’s family, so I never had any occasion. But, it was here and it was good. We read the old newspapers. They shipped a lot of freight out here, a lot of grain; a lot of sheep, a lot of cattle, a lot of stuff went out here, turkeys. Allison had a turkey co-op and they shipped their turkeys out of here, clear to New York! Wheelock: Oh my goodness, did your friends come here using the train? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: Not for us, but a lot of people did come in. The salesmen that came into the stores that showed their wares. They had their little suitcase and they used to come on the train. And, there were two or three… at least two, all the time, hotels. Wheelock: Where were the hotels? I remember the one over here at the casino. McClanahan: At that time, where the SUCAP building is, that was one. The other one was down close to the hardware is now, where the motorcycle shop is now and there was one up at the agency. Before that, the agency was here first. I think there was a hotel up there, too. Wheelock: Where they full? McClanahan: Yeah, they were busy. Evidently, but they burned. One of them was a commercial hotel and the other one was the Ignacio Hotel, but the commercial hotel burned in 1937. I think it was, just before we moved to Towaoc, because my dad helped clean up the mess. Wheelock: Were you here when they decided not to have the railroad? Do know why the railroad left? McClanahan: I think the trucking got to be a thing, and it was quicker. The train was slow. I think you could ship things out by truck a lot more quicker. That's my idea. I don’t know? Wheelock: Do you think it hurt the economy here at all? McClanahan: Well, I don't know. I think it caused some things. I am thinking it might have a little bit. I think about all the �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 stuff that they hauled down here and that the train wrecked a lot. I don't know. It seemed like a lot to me, every once in awhile the kids would put something on the rail, probably some are like that. Wheelock: (laughs) Do you have any memories of the train as far as you can think about concerning the train? McClanahan: No. Wheelock: What about when the gas line came, were you here when that came about? Would you like to elaborate on that? McClanahan: Well, I don't know too much about it. I remember the first from reading the old newspapers. Way back then they wanted people to lease their land to explore, to drill some gas but they never did get enough people to sign up. So they never did for years and years but there was one story about the Ritter's: They had put well down and I guess the gas came out of it and when he came home, he had a little too much to drink and she wouldn’t let him in the house and he went out there and lit that gas to stay warm! Wheelock: (laughs). McClanahan: But I remember, I don't know what year it was, they drilled a deep well, in my mind, it seems like it was where the houses are near Cedar Point, they drilled a real deep well and it was an exploration well, and very so often they took a test to see what was down there. It took a long time to drill that they went down a mile or more. It took a very long time. A lot of people that came in with it, the �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 roughnecks… They brought a lot to the economy. I think that was the first I remember. Wheelock: Do you feel they really helped the economy here? McClanahan: At that time they did. Yeah, they brought in all these people they rented houses and they bought groceries. And the wells, they had to have something they used in the wells, I can't remember what it was. Some of the people worked for them (some product), so it was good for them but it didn't last. I don't know how long it was before they came back and they kept drilling and everything. It was several years, I think. Wheelock: Now Williams Gas and Oil was in that area there, do you know when or how that came about? McClanahan: I don’t know. Wheelock: What do you miss most about what it used to be? McClanahan: I don't know, just the pace. And everybody today you know…of course, when we had to store I knew everybody. Today, none of those people are still around. It’s all new people, and I don’t know very many and that’s what I miss. It always just thrills me when I go to store and I run into people I still know and they'll give me a big hug and we’ll just visit a little while and I really like that. Wheelock: What are you the most proudest of in your life? McClanahan: I don't know, my kids! My kids all graduated from Ignacio High School. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: Can you tell me some stories about the kids growing up here, and the changes you have seen? McClanahan: We all walked to school. They all walked to school. We lived up on the hill. Wheelock: Candelaria Heights? McClanahan: No, up where… next to Donna Young. So our kids walked to school -- I walked to school. I walked about 2 miles, once in awhile; we’d get a ride. I tell everybody that especially in the wintertime, me and my little brother (that's not very good language) my little brother and I, if we’d get out from the house down her lane, down to the highway, down to the county road there was a guy that lived just up the road up another mile. He took his daughter to school. And if we’d get out there in time, he would give us a ride. I don't think his daughter liked that very well, because it was a pickup and those old pickups weren't very big, so we’d squeeze me in and him on my lap. But he just didn't have the heart to pass us up. (the driver) Wheelock: We had people like that too! What were the roads like and that sort of thing? McClanahan: They weren't very good. I don't know when we first got gravel, but the road used to come down the hill through the pasture behind, came down right in the middle of the Justice Center Building, you know where that street comes out from the Justice Building, that went straight up the hill and there used to be a low spot in there and people got stuck. They used to have to get out and push, so they weren't very good for a long time; then they �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 got graveled. I don't know when they finally got pavement. The gravel was really good. Wheelock: How about your classmates, what do you remember about your classmates? McClanahan: They were all nice. They were good kids. Wheelock: Any stories you can tell? McClanahan: Well, I remember hearing this story, my cousin was ornery than the dickens and he had a friend that was just as ornery and the Sanchez girls told us that they rode horseback to school, and they’d tie up their horse. During the day, sometime, these boys would go out and aggravate the horse and they’d go and tie that knot so tight that those girls couldn't get them undone! Wheelock: How old were they? McClanahan: Grade school! Wheelock: Did a lot of kids ride horses? McClanahan: They did in those days. I did the first year or two my brother. I didn't like riding with him because he was ornery too. First, I was real little and I’d sit in the saddle with him and he'd squeeze me, so then, I sat behind, and he and Bonnie Kent and had Ida behind him and they rode a horse to school. Donald and Bonnie would have to have a race, and Ida and I was sitting behind hanging on! (laughs) Wheelock: (laughs)Did you win? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: I don't remember (laughs) Wheelock: When did you ride the horses? McClanahan: Just a couple years then I didn't like it, so I said I'd rather walk. Wheelock: You were starting to tell me about your kids and some of the memories that you have of them? McClanahan: I don't remember too much. Judy was a whiz she studied. She got good grades. So they all did all right with grades. I don't know, the kids, Cindy was a cheerleader and Dale wrestled. Greg played basketball and I can’t remember what else? A lot of school activities, they were all in all of them. Wheelock: Did you also go to school with them and help them out? McClanahan: I tried to go to all the games and everything. Shirley Waters was working at the store and her son Dan who’s the same age as Dale and they were playing football, and I remember we took off one day and went to watch them play over in Dulce. So I tried to watch them when I could. Wheelock: Did you leave the store often? Did you take vacations? McClanahan: Not very often, if we did, it would be in February because that was our slow time that was when we got married, in February. Then, during the slow time, we took a trip once. Butch had a sister, whose husband was in the Air Force and they were in Texas. They were in Mobile, Alabama. We took a trip down there to see them. One time we went to San Antonio and took a trip there but �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 that was later, way later. I had a brother who was in New Jersey and we took a trip back to see him. That was about the only trips we took. Wheelock: Did you go to Vallecito, Navajo Lake? McClanahan: We used to go up there all the time. We’d go waterskiing, fishing, and we went to Navajo. Wheelock: Were you here when they made Navajo Dam, can you tell me a little bit about that? McClanahan: We used to go down there on Sunday and take a picnic lunch and see what was going on, just kind of keeping track of it. It was interesting. Wheelock: They had a town; they actually got rid of Rosa and that sort of thing. Did you know any of the people there that were displaced? McClanahan: No. Now Rosa was actually in New Mexico, and it was quite a town. I kept telling everybody, the people that drank, Colorado was a dry state, they couldn’t get liquor here, so they would go over to Rosa and get their liquor. And I thought it was legal but I talked to Ed Marquez the other day and he said, “No it was moonshine they got over there!” (laughs) Wheelock: I wonder who was making it? McClanahan: Well, probably several people. (laughs) Wheelock: Well, when they got rid of that, where did he get the alcohol then? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: Well, by that time you could buy it here. I saw on one of the papers that people had voted down making Colorado wet. It said it won't be wet until we vote on it, and we never did vote on it. I’m sure, they just decided it was all right to buy it here. They just made it legal- I don’t know who did. Wheelock: When did it come into this area, or do you know? McClanahan: Well, I don't know just when it was. Wheelock: How do you think… were the relations pretty good with that? McClanahan: Oh yeah, everybody got along. The city had an unwritten agreement, just an oral agreement with the Spanish people. Most of the Spanish people lived south of … I don’t know what that street is- not the bank the one next down, down after the bank.... Wheelock: Browning? Goddard? McClanahan: The street that went across. I don’t know whether it was Navajo or Pine, one of those streets. Most of the Spanish people lived down there. They had some that were really interested in politics and took part but the city had an unwritten agreement that they had six on their council, and three would be white and three would be Spanish and that’s just the way everybody voted. You know, just because that was the thing to do! Wheelock: That was wonderful, they did that! Did you know how that came about? McClanahan: Well, I don't know? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: Was the government that way right in the beginning? McClanahan: Well, I don't know whether it was or not. I don't know? Just the people. Everybody was interested in the city and things that went on. They didn't have any trouble getting a mayor or people in the council because people were interested. They wanted to do things for the town and wanted to be right and they were willing to do that. You know, they didn't get paid; I don’t think any of them ever got paid in the old days. Wheelock: How are the relations with the tribe also? McClanahan: I think they got along well. I don't remember them having any problems. We had a lot of people that worked up at the agency that were government employees that were white people. I don't know… just everybody got along. Wheelock: Did you enjoy school? You said you enjoyed school. How do you think your classmates would remember you? McClanahan: (laughs) I don’t know. Wheelock: You were such a pillar of society in this community. McClanahan: Well, not in those days- we didn't even live in town. We lived 2 miles out of town. We could never vote on the council or anything. We could never participate… the Lions Club came and went a time or two. A lot of the people that joined the Lions Club… then it kind of petered out somehow or rather then one day somebody would come in and was gung ho, and they’d have a Lions Club �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 again. They were real active- they had an Odd Fellows that was the first part of the Shur Value locker plant. It was the odd Fellows Hall building. They built that. I think It was an Adobe building. Wheelock: I know when my in-laws lived here. Martin and Irene Wheelock, that was in the 50s and I remember Rick talking about the dances and square dances and I think they were also part of the Lions Club and that sort of thing. Do you recognize the name or anything like that? McClanahan: I had seen that name (that Wheelock name) and then I wondered, “If he was related to him?” Wheelock: It was Irene Wheelock, and she was Finnish. Did Butch live here? McClanahan: Butch lived here. He was born in Montrose. Wheelock: Can you tell me a little bit about him? McClanahan: He lost his dad when he was about 13, when he, I think just finished his junior year in high school and one day, it was in summer and he and his friends were loafing around town and Lester Lunsford came along and he said, “Do you boys want a job?” “Oh yeah!” Butch, he always had a job, even when he was young, he worked at the theatre, delivering papers, delivering doughnuts. They said. “Sure!” Lester was working for a lawyer who had sheep and he had his sheep up on Mount Wilson. I don't know how to tell you where it was, by Slick Rock. Wheelock: I've heard the name. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: It's up by Dove Creek. Wheelock: By Naturita? McClanahan: Somewhere in that area he was taking care of these sheep and he needed some help. When school came he worked for them. Butch didn't want to go back. He liked it there and the other kid must’ve of gone. Wheelock: And how old was he at the time? McClanahan: He was a junior. Wheelock: About 16 or 17? McClanahan: So Lester worked there a couple years and they were good friends. He was kind of proud, a father figure to him and Oakley was Lester's brother, and he just opened his locker plant and needed a butcher and Lester was a butcher, but he had lost an eye. He had a glass eye and, of course, he was very self-conscious of it and that was when he went to hills with the sheep. In a couple years later, about that time he got used to it, he was ok with it. He came to Ignacio to help Oakley in the butcher shop and he brought Butch with him. He never left. Butch worked around the theater. He did everything there. Wheelock: Now the one here or in or over Montrose? McClanahan: No, the one in Montrose. The theater here was for sale, so Lester said, “You come with me and we’ll buy that theater and you can run it!” By the time they got here someone else bought it, so he became a butcher instead. Wheelock: So that sounds wonderful! So you guys met! �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: His name is Bruce and I never asked Butch how he got his name. How he got his nickname Butch. I suppose he always had it. Someone told me, when Lester ran into these boys and they asked him what’s your name? My name's Bruce, but they call me “Fats!” but “ Well, I'm gonna call you Butch” and that’s how he got Butch. Butch didn’t tell me that, but it sounds like it might've been true. I don't know. Wheelock: Was Butch's mother alive still? McClanahan: Yes, she was 96 when she died. Wheelock: Still in Montrose? McClanahan: Same house she lived in a long time, not all of he life. They came out from Ohio to the Montrose area from Ohio. Wheelock: How did his father pass away? McClanahan: He had a perforated ulcer. He was working down in reservation. He was a carpenter and he was working down in the Navajo Reservation, out in the boonies and when this happened. They took him into Window Rock or Gallup or someplace. But it took them too long to get to there and they couldn’t save him. Wheelock: Was his wife with him at the time? The family? McClanahan: They were living in Winslow. He was only 40 something. Wheelock: What was she doing when that happened? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: Well, when that happened, she had no skills. They moved back to Montrose because this was where they still had a house there. She went to work for the school lunch program as a cook and later she worked at the hospital as a cook. She got a very small pension, 35 dollars from his veteran’s pension, the kids helped out. She needed a new refrigerator. We pooled our resources and bought her a refrigerator. I remember the different things we bought for her. She had an old coal stove. It was thing in the basement where you stored the fire furnace. It made her house dirty. I remember she’d clean and the walls. She had paper walls. She would have this pink stuff to clean and the walls. She was quite a lady, a wonderful person! I loved her a lot! Wheelock: She still lived there instead of coming here? How many children did she have? McClanahan: She had four. She lost one when he was very small. So she just had three of them. She had a sister, older. She had a sister who is older and still living in Montrose. She's 93, I guess. She had a younger brother and he passed away. I think about 10 years ago. So Butch died on October 11, 1990. His mother passed away six years later on the same day or two days earlier, on October 9th and his brother passed on the October 9th, six years later after that. Isn't that odd? The sister is kinda worried about that last one but she’s still here!(laughs) Wheelock: Now was Butch ever in the military? McClanahan: No, he had varicose veins real bad. They wouldn't take him. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: What are some of the lessons you learned in your life? What are some of things you feel are good that you want to tell us about? McClanahan: I don't know! Relax! Don't get in a hurry! Wheelock: You know people are pretty much in a hurry. McClanahan: And here, people are in such a big hurry, that's when I stopped driving to Durango. People are just in too big of a hurry. What are they going to do there, in a hurry, they run reds lights. Wheelock: What was Durango like? McClanahan: It was kind of a small town. My grandparents lived there. We’d go in on Saturday, and visit with them, do any shopping we needed to do, and sometimes you get to eat lunch at the Mandarin Café and sometimes grandma’s would fix lunch for us. There was a card table out there. We'd play cribbage with them and the house was always hot and now I understand. Wheelock: Did they use coal? McClanahan: I think they had gas in there. My mother's brother just lived two doors down from them and kind of took care of them. They needed anything, we would visit with them too and Thanksgiving, we’d get together with them. Mom's twin sister lived up the road about a mile from us, so on Sundays most of the times we’d get together. In the summer, on the Fourth of July we started eating fried chicken. We always got baby chicks just barely big enough by the Fourth of July. We started when they were little and they got too big. We hadn’t any way of freezing �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 them back then, so every Sunday we had fried chicken. We either went to their house or they came to our house and sometimes uncle Charlie would come out and it was just nice. Wheelock: Sounds like it was a good life! McClanahan: It was! Wheelock: When you and Butch got married, could you tell me a little about your ceremony and how was it different from what was going on now? McClanahan: We just went to the preacher and got married and our friends stood up with us and then we went and had breakfast and went to Aztec where we got married, then we took off and went to California, we were gone for four or five days. Wheelock: Were you still like working at the store as employees? McClanahan: Yes. Wheelock: Did you have a house here? McClanahan: We had rented a house, that house south the hardware, that purple house. They just tore it down not too long ago. We lived in an apartment side of that house. He lived in it. He worked on it and moved into it and we lived there about a year, then we bought the house on the hill and it wasn’t a real old house. It was built in the 30s, I think. It had a room for bathroom but it didn't have any fixtures or running water so we just took all the pennies we had and worked on it and we lived there for 37 years. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: Oh my goodness! McClanahan: 34 years I guess, the last three years we were out there, before Butch died. He only lived there about three years. Wheelock: Is that the one across from the Meltons, that area where I’m thinking? Where you lived before you said, by the Young’s? McClanahan: Where I live now. We lived right next door to the white house, I think the town cop. Wheelock: The Sheriff. Wheelock: Well you fixed it up a lot. McClanahan: We did quite a bit. We were always working on it. They had done a lot to it since we had it. Wheelock: Did you say the Young’s house that those houses were there before? McClanahan: They were there after we moved there. Wheelock: I always thought that the Young’s owned all that land? McClanahan: Donna's dad was Oakley Lunsford, they used to live there now then. They lived in the big house, the white house there, next to us and Donna's grandparent’s owned that land. I think there was 20 acres there and they both had lived in the house that we bought, and they both had died and Oakley bought out all the heirs and then he owned that land. I think there was more to it. I think Ed �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Duncan owned that first but maybe Oakley owned it. I don't remember, but anyhow, he just sold us the house. He had land around it but also the land where Jerry lived wasn't part of that. I think there was 20 acres that was square. Our place and Christino Casias had 5 acres off of that and the rest of it was owned by Oakley. He died. I think Donna got the rest. She got the rest. Wheelock: So with “Cow Heaven?” Who owned that?(laughs) McClanahan: And that went with the store. When we got that the slaughterhouse too. Wheelock: How did he get the name, “Cow Heaven?” McClanahan: I don't know who dubbed that. Wheelock: When we moved here we saw the sign “Cow Heaven,” we just thought that was the greatest thing! McClanahan: I think as I remember, who was it, El Paso built those houses there. There was this road in front of our house. It was a street. There was a road through there, but Oakley had closed it up to Donna’s. Donna and Jerry built there then and I think that El Paso wanted to come through there instead and come up that hill so, Oakley didn't want all that traffic. So he wouldn’t’ t sell it to they. They had to get another route up there so that's it. Wheelock: So that is how that road came about. Do you remember anything else about El Paso coming in? McClanahan: It was kind of exciting to have new houses over there and who got them, it was good. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: So you had the kids up here then, what was some of things they did for their past time? McClanahan: Well, they played. There were kids at the El Paso housing and they played baseball. We had a broken window every year, wore the grass out, things like that. They just played together a lot. One time, one of the kids over there was playing with Cindy-- with Judy and somehow or other a BB gun was involved and she had glasses or she wouldn’t had problems. She had a problem anyhow, but she got glass in the eye. He shot her in the eye with a BB gun. It was pretty hairy! It was on Sunday and we had all this company coming, several couples coming. So Butch loaded her up and took her into the eye doctor. They thought they had all the glass out. It was still scratchy. He had to take her back and they still had glass in there. Wheelock: Oh my goodness, where did you take her? McClanahan: I don't know where he took her. Wheelock: Did you have doctors here? Where were the doctors? McClanahan: Durango. Wheelock: So you had to drive all that distance. So what kind of healthcare did you have here or did you have health care at all? McClanahan: We didn’t have any health care. We didn't have anything. We didn't take any antibiotics. We were healthy people. We didn't have all these preservatives. We did our own cooking instead of buying stuff that was already cooked. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: That brings up, what was the store like comparing the store back then as to now? McClanahan: Oh golly, it was small. I don't know, I don't remember too much. I remember we sold kerosene. They brought their own containers and had eggs in a paper sack. Wheelock: Local eggs? McClanahan: We bought eggs from farmers and they came in and traded them for groceries. Well, we had vinegar in the barrel. We sold Ranch Way Feed. We sold cattle feed. Wheelock: I guess it would be a mixture of different things. McClanahan: What else? Wheelock: Did they sell things like hay? McClanahan: No. You know before they built the slaughterhouse on the hill, I think they slaughtered down by the river someplace. I think all the stuff went into the river, maybe. Of course, when I got up on the hill and didn’t have things like that anymore. You know, you think back when we were kids we had outhouses. The school, we didn't have any running water. I don't remember any sinks to wash her hands in. Things weren't as sanitary at all, but we are all better off for it, I think! I think we put too much emphasis on the sanitary. I don't know, I think sometimes that makes people sick. Wheelock: Back to the school again, did they have outhouses in back of the school and did have boys and girls? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: Yes. Wheelock: Did they have someone watching them? McClanahan: No. Wheelock: You hear stories of pranks? McClanahan: At Halloween, people would tip over the outhouses. Not that much here. Mr. Clark, the barber, used to get so mad at the kids at Halloween because that was reason they did the things they did! But they had more fun tormenting him. (laughs) Wheelock: Where were the barbershops? McClanahan: Well, one was there, where the old SUCAP building was, they added to the store. That was the original barbershop there upstairs and that is where Mr. Clark had his barbershop. There was a little apartment upstairs and I think attached to it was a little hamburger shop and just a counter with a few stools. Wheelock: Up on top or down below? McClanahan: Down below, and when they closed the barbershop there were couple restaurants that went in there and they didn’t seem to make it. Then SUCAP bought it, I think they rented to Tom Wiseman and we bought it from Tom. Wheelock: When did SUCAP come about and why? McClanahan: Well… I don't remember when it was. It had to do with community action. They had those all around. I don't know what they were supposed to be for. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: I know it was supposed to be the Southern Utes and probably just the town Council here and so the Spanish, English and Whites might of all got together? McClanahan: Community Action Program was a government program. I think the Southern Ute, SU sponsored it. Most of the community action programs were closed but the Southern Utes kept there's as they kind of sponsored it. They took it over. I think, I don't know when exactly it started or what the purpose was. It had a purpose. Wheelock: I'm sure it did but when you brought it up, I wonder how it started. Wheelock: Let's go back to the store, when you ran it, when you first started with it, what were some of the produce and vegetables? Were they local or came by train? Wheelock: I can't remember much about the groceries. The store, when I first started, was really small. It was only 25 feet wide. Meat was their thing. They had a meat case. They had some shelves, some groceries, probably what people bought most. You know, I think I remember now, looking back to the women, they never came to town to shop. The men came to shop. I think it was because they only had one car. Women didn't drive. Women made the list and the men came down and did their shopping for the groceries. I can remember, single old men used to come to the store and they’d go around. I remember one guy, his name was... anyway he was in the war and he got shell shocked or gassed or something. He was kind of hard to understand but he’d come in with his wife’s list and if she had crackers on the list, just the two of them, and he took the biggest cracker box we had, and he’d get the �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 biggest stuff. He always had to have a carton of some kind, chewing tobacco. He went to the back, I can't remember what it was, Redmond or something, the kind that came in small pouch, (laughs) and I remember him so well. The men liked to come in and visit. I remember Mr. Saulyers with the agency. Do you remember him? He’d get off at 5 o'clock up there and we didn't close till six, and he'd go home and have dinner with his wife and he'd come around and come in, hang around and visit. We’d try to sweep the floor and get ready to leave and we’d have to move him. Wheelock: Sounds like you had some good memories? McClanahan: We had a good time! Wheelock: When you bought the store was it expanded? McClanahan: No, it had already been expanded. It's a long story, when Oakley thought he wanted to retire and Jerry and Donna got married, Jerry had taken over my job in the groceries and stuff. Wheelock: What were you doing at that time? McClanahan: Well, I retired. I was having babies! (laughs) They had a partnership... Jerry, Butch and Oakley and somehow this went on for a year or two. That didn't work out so good, so Oakley bought it. So Jerry sold out. Oakley bought the other guy out and Butch said, “I've got so much already in the business.” So we had so much already in the business. We bought it and then a year or two later, Oakley's health was declining so we had to do something. He'd went down and talked to the banker and they told �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 him, they said to go ahead and roll over the FDA loan to us, so we got it. Wheelock: So that was up to the old SUCAP building before. They had added to it? McClanahan: I think that Oakley had bought all that land. The Odd Fellows had bought it to begin with and I think he bought it from the Odd Fellows. He got it from the Odd Fellows. When he did, he got that whole vacant lot between Mr. Butler’s store and a barbershop, and they added that while the partnership was going. Wheelock: Is there anything we didn't talk about that you would like to add? McClanahan: No, nothing in particular. Wheelock: I remember both of you when I moved here, and how wonderful you were to Rick and I. McClanahan: You know the lady came in the store, I ran into a lady in the story the other day. She lives out north of the town hall, and she said, “I always remembered when we moved here, we didn't have a phone (and those days they didn’t have a cell phones) and we came in and you let us use the phone.” She thought we were great people because we let them use our phone. Those are just things you did, you know. Why not, why wouldn’t you let her use the phone? Wheelock: You just have a kind heart and Butch and your children. McClanahan: I remember Tom Givon. He was here for quite a while. His wife wasn't with him. She was still up in Oregon. He’d �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 go back up there up to Oregon to teach... whatever. He’d come back, he told me this, he said, “Every time I’d come back to the store you would say, “Oh your back!” I don't know, it was just a fun time and our employees would stay on and on. We didn't have all the employee help they have today, and we didn't pay them all top wages. I remember when we took over the store, Butch gave them all a raise because Oakley wasn’t in paying very much at all, so we gave them all a raise. So I gave raises as we went along. We didn't have any trouble with them but we had those women who worked there for 20 years or more. They worked different cash registers.(laughs) Wheelock: That’s something, what about the technology, watching your technology grow? McClanahan: Well, the different ways we’d mark groceries. We had a stamp thing like a dater. That's the way we marked our groceries to begin with, then we got these little tags, and I don't know... then one day we put up shelf tags and we started ordering by scanning and we had to get scanners. We put in scanners. I can't remember how it evolved, we started in, what did he call it? We put in this kind of cash register and it just opens the drawer. I can't remember just how it worked. You punched in the amount; somehow it was a “casecooler” or something like that. It wasn't much of a cash register and then went to the kind you pulled it. And then we went to the ones you used to punch it in, on the side, before we got the scanners. Wheelock: So we had several of bank robberies in this town. Do you know anything about those? �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 McClanahan: I remember that last one, when they caught the guy. I remember it. I don't remember about any of the others but read about them in the paper. It told what they got away with. It wasn't much in our standards today, but it in those days it was a lot.(laughs). Wheelock: Did you have things stolen from the store? Do you have any stories about that? McClanahan: Yeah, we were robbed two or three times. One time we had a safe that we put our bills in, our folding money and it was cemented in the wall. You went down into it. We kept the coins in a little cabinet and one time they came and took all the coins. They didn’t know about the other. They couldn’t get in. It was just before the weekend when we needed all those coins.(laughs)They never caught the people. They didn't know about the safe and couldn’t get into it. I don't think they ever caught the people. Another time they took more than that. They never caught anybody. Wheelock: They just did that! McClanahan: It was just one of those things! Wheelock: Well, I think we pretty well talked about everything that I can think of. McClanahan: I can’t think of anything else. Wheelock: You have been wonderful it’s been wonderful hearing all the things that you’ve been here and done here and as I said you are a pillar of this society of Ignacio, because I know as I said, you helped Rick and I so much. In sense of �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 just your warmth, your kindness to us. You always have a smile and you're always greeting and enjoying life! McClanahan: Before I went to work the store and I was never out going at all. I was very shy and it did a lot for me. In a situation like that I had to meet people and I had to smile, but I loved them. I like people and I like visiting with them once in awhile. They didn't visit very long and just talk a little bit and I imagined I’d asked the same people where their kids are going to college a dozen times, and they never said, “Don't you remember!” (laughs) Wheelock: Well, I know your children and your grandchildren were a pleasure to work with, they were fun. Cindy was great. McClanahan: I love those kids. I am a family person! Wheelock: It shows and you’re a community person. McClanahan: Yes, I love my town. I drive down the street and I think this is a nice-looking town and it is. There are one of two places that needs to be demolished or fixed up but all in all it is pretty good. Wheelock: What do you think are the attributes of this community? McClanahan: What do you mean by attributes? Wheelock: What are the positives of this community? McClanahan: I don't know. I think the library is really a good thing and that it has brought a lot of people together. And it does a lot of good for the community, and the new store is good for the community and we needed that. �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 Wheelock: We did! McClanahan: I don't know. It's just a nice town. Wheelock: I think so too! It's a good place to grow up. McClanahan: We just don't have any place for new people to come in, to live! There’s quite a few rentals and I just don't know. We don't have a whole lot of place to expand except on the hill and behind Candelaria Heights. And I thought there was 60 acres the town bought to keep the motorcycles out. They were afraid they were going to buy the land up there. They bought it but didn't have any money to develop it, so I think I they turned it over to the tribe to develop, but I don't think the tribe didn’t do anything either. They had it kind of plotted out. I think they were going have trailer houses here and apartments here, whatever. I had wished that the tribe would build some more apartments. I would think they would want to, because they had so many employees here that would have to drive to work everyday. I would think they would want to put in apartments. Maybe it's one of their priorities. Maybe they'll do it one of these days. They are pretty secretive about things. They don’t say much. You know, where the old casino was, would be a nice place for an apartment house. Wheelock: Yeah, I wonder what they're going to do with that land? McClanahan: Who knows, one of these days we'll find out... if we live long enough? Wheelock: Well thank you very, very much! McClanahan: You bet it was my pleasure! �Voices of Ignacio Interviewee: Jean McClanahan Interviewer: Liz Wheelock Date: February 5, 2016 [End of transcription] Transcribed by: Burt Baldwin, July 6, 2016 Audit edit by: Renee Morgan, August 3, 2016 Final edit by: Renee Morgan, August 4, 2016 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voices of Ignacio Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jean McClanahan Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2016-07-06 Subject The topic of the resource Interview; Ignacio; Colorado; McClanahan, Jean, 1924-2021; McClanahan, Butch Description An account of the resource The transcript of an interview with Jean McClanahan conducted by Liz Wheelock at the Ignacio Community Library on Friday, February 5th, 2016. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text