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                    <text>PAUL AND HAZEL (Gunderman) BRAKE
During the first two decades of this century, the Ithaca (New York) Conservatory of
Music was one of the four finest music centers in the country. It was there Paul Brake
and Hazel Gunderman became acquainted through their interest in music and dated
and became good friends. Ithaca, in the Finger Lakes district of southern New York, is a
very beautiful place. "It's very much like here, only less rugged and has much mare rain"
says Hazel.
When Hazel was born on August 30, 1901, her parents, Charles and Ethyl Gunderman,
lived in Waverly, New York, about 40 miles south of Ithaca. Mr. Gunderman was
employed by an aggressive company with a great future, the Bell Telephone Co. "Dad
was a construction foreman and a trouble man for 33 years. This job eventually took us
to Ithaca. It was hard work without the machines used today. The telephone poles were
raised by horses and the men had to pull the wires by hand. During the years he was a
trouble man, he was called out during storms and in the middle of the night whenever
service was interrupted."
School was quite demanding in those days. "We didn't get any credit for just being
there. Every year we had to pass the Regent's Exam or we would not be passed on to
the next grade. Our home was heated by a coal stove. We had running water from the
town's spring-fed reservoir, so pure it needed no filtration. -We had no supermarkets.
We bought milk and eggs at the creamery and our meat at the butcher's. The stores did
have canned goods, which was a help, since the only fresh things available during
winter were cabbage, celery, turnips and plenty of apples. Bacon was 20 cents a pound
and if butter got to 35 cents a pound, people-thought it was too high to use.
Refrigerating food was never a problem in winter. We always had a cold room, but in
summer every one used an ice box. Blocks of ice were delivered twice a week. Ice
cutting on the river provided work for many men during winter."
During the 1920's Hazel taught music to many private students. This work was
successful and enjoyable until the years of the depression. Suddenly people were too
poor to pay for music lessons and Hazel was out of work. In 1932 Hazel and her mother
went to Los Angeles for a visit and decided to stay, since there were more jobs in
California. Over the next 30 years Hazel had a variety of jobs. "I took whatever was
available during the depression. There was no unemployment compensation then."
In 1962 Hazel made a trip back to Ithaca. While visiting Miss Holmes, one of her old
teachers at the conservatory, she learned that Paul Brake, whom she had not seen for
over 30 years, was teaching school in Salida, Colorado. When she returned home,
Hazel wrote to Opal and the friendship which had begun so long ago, resumed. They
met in Las Vegas, Nevada, over Christmas vacation of 1962 and were married. Paul
returned to Salida to finish the school year. The next summer he joined Hazel in Los
Angeles.
The Brakes came to Ignacio and Durango for a vacation in the summer of 1964. This
was not Paul's first trip to this area. He had taught music in the Ute Vocational School
for 6 years 1946-53. Of all the bands he taught in various schools across the country,
16

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Mr. Brake says he got the most satisfaction from his bands at the Indian School.
Primarily, Mr. Brake says, "Because the Indian children are very talented, musically."

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Paul had good memories of Ignacio and Hazel took an immediate liking for the area.
After a little searching, they located a house to buy, then returned to Los Angeles, since
Hazel needed to work only a few months to reach retirement age. She had no regrets
about leaving Los Angeles. "Los Angeles offers many cultural advantages, such as the
Hollywood Bowl, the museums, and the symphony, but I never really liked it there very
well. It is damp and foggy much of the time. Then the town began to grow until all the
autos made the air almost unbreathable.''
Pulling up stakes to move to Los Angeles and then on to Ignacio is part of the pattern of
Paul Brake's life. His career in music has taken him to more places in the country than
most people have heard of. Paul's father, Charles Hobart Brake was a school teacher
educated in Canada. Later he bought a Business College in Norfolk, Nebraska. Paul
was born there on December 14, 1897. After selling the college, Charles farmed in
Nebraska and then decided to go back to New York. Not long afterward, Paul began to
demonstrate the beginnings of the musical talent which would dominate his life, Paul
had been forbidden to "bother his father's clarinet', but when he was alone in the house,
Paul experimented with it until he could play a tune. When his father caught him, he
decided it was not mischief but potential talent showing up. So -Paul got lessons. Then
he was sent to the conservatory where he met Hazel. His first jobs were providing
theme music at the theaters in Ithaca. Then he went on the road with the band in Van
Arnum's Circus and became fascinated with the traveling life. Over the next 20 years,
he traveled the country with a marvelous variety of circuses, road shows and
melodramas. Paul worked one season on a living legend, the Cotton Blossom Show
Boat. "We played the towns up and down the Mississippi, Ohio, Cumberland and
Tennessee Rivers, one play going down and another coming back up the river. We did
Little Shepherd of Kingdom Come and Unwa nted Child. The band provided incidental
music for the plays. When the boat stopped near Hannibal, Missouri, I asked an old
timer whether he had known Mark Twain. He said yes, he had known him and that Mark
was a pretty good man, but an awful liar."
The show boat was a theater built on a garage. It would seat 500. "Most of the time we
stopped at towns, but occasionally we'd tie up at lonely little docks in farm country. That
night we'd see the people walking through the woods with their lanterns and rowing
down the river in their skiffs. People in those areas were hungry for entertainment and it
was surprising what a crowd we'd pull out of seemingly empty country. Seats cost 35
cents to 75 cents. There were 10 in the cast, 12 in the band and a crew of 3 operated
the stern-wheeler steam boat which maneuvered the garage."
Paul played tuba for the Youngstown, Ohio Symphony for several years, then went back
on the road with the Ringling Brothers-Barnum &amp; Bailey Circus. Other years he taught
band in schools in Ohio, Texas and Colorado .
The Brake's time in Colorado has been retirement in the best sense of the word. Now
that there is time, they have both worked to develop further their talents and interests .
Hazel has taught piano to many youngsters and spends hours oil painting. Paul fishes
17

�in the Pine River when he takes a notion, teaches violin and composes music. His latest
creation, a symphonic composition of four suites for band was conducted by Mr. Brake
at the Ft. Lewis Concert last December. Our senior citizens are people with abilities and
interests as varied and as valuable as those of any other age group. The Brakes are
adequate evidence of this. We send both of them our best wishes for good health and
for many years to work and create and contribute to their community.
January, 1976 -- by Shelby Smith

18

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                <text>Biography of Paul Brake and Hazel (Gunderman) Brake based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith. Originally included in the January, 1976 issue of "The Thoughtful Years" newsletter published by the Ignacio Senior Center. Later included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith.</text>
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                    <text>PAULINE (De Herrera) RODRIQUEZ
When Pauline Ruth De Herrera was born at Antonito, Colorado, on Sept. 15, 1907,
Spanish people had been living in the Rio Grande and San Luis Valleys for a very long
time. The dates in the graveyards, if nothing else, will testify to that. The old Conejos
communities of Antonito, Las Mesitas, Mannasa and Espioza still maintain a Spanish
flavor. The Las Mesitas Church with its two steeples is a striking landmark. Beside it is
the church yard where generations of Paulina's ancestors are buried. Paulina's parents
Alfred and Adala De Herrera, owned a home and small acreage near Antonito, but in
the summer the whole family headed for the mountains. Alfred was a cowboy.
"In May many farmers turned their cattle over to him to take into the high summer range
near Cumbres. Dad would drive the cattle along, sometimes as many as 500, and
Mother and all of us children followed in the buggy. We had a cabin overlooking a big
meadow. It was such a carefree life. We picked strawberries by the gallons. They were
small, but, oh, so sweet. Other days mother sent us for gooseberries. Once in the
gooseberry patch my brother Chris and I got a terrible fright. We were picking when
suddenly we came to a place under some overhanging branches where the grass and
flowers were flattened like a nest. Some of the stems were still springing up. It was so
plain we had just roused some animal (our imagination told us it was a bear.) We
screamed and threw our buckets into the air and ran. Occasionally, we took off a little
time for fishing. Our favorite place was La Laguna Azul, a beautiful mountain lake with
gold water lilies along one side. We caught a lot of fish there. Always we wanted to see
a deer, but we never saw one. I guess those mountains were hunted out in those days.
About once a month we went down to Antonito to stock up on groceries. We would
leave on Saturday and come back on Monday. Dad had two beautiful mares just for our
buggy trips. We had such a relaxed and carefree life until the fall when the cattle were
branded and moved down to the farms."
Pauline remembers one time that was definitely not carefree. In the spring of 1911 there
was a terrible flood all across Southern Colorado. Alfred was already in the mountains
with the cattle. When Adala and the children awoke that morning the fields around them
were a lake.

"There was water in every direction. My grandmother Lujan was there with us and we
decided it might be higher at her place in Las Mesitas, so mother went out and hitched
up the mares. We went through deep water, but the real trouble came when we got to
Las Mesitas Ditch (which was as large as the Allison Ditch). The bridge was washed
away and the men on the other side said, 'don't come across. The mares will drown and
so will you!' My mother was very brave. She said it was better to try than be trapped on
the low side. The mares went clear under. Mother jumped from the buggy and lifted the
heads of the mares out of the water. Finally, one of the men jumped in to help and the
mares began to swim. When we got to the other shore, we were all soaked to the bone
and crying. There was water around Grandmother Lujan's house, too; but it didn't get
any deeper. In a couple of days it went down. All our chickens were gone and
everybody's crops were ruined."

14 6

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Idyllic and pleasant as a Rocky Mountain summer can be, winter is another thing,
especially in the Sun Luis Valley. Then the valley becomes a cold and windy place with
vast, drafty blizzards howling down its length. Every evening before bed Pauline and
Chris had to peel enough potatoes for the next day and place them in water to keep
them white. "Every morning the house was cold. Dad got up first to light the coal oil
lamp and to build a fire in the kitchen. Then I had to get up to slice and start frying those
potatoes. Then mother got up and made biscuits, white gravy, fried eggs and always
oatmeal with lots of fresh milk and butter."
Pauline and all the children needed a good breakfast, since they walked three miles to
school at Espinoza. Sometimes it was an ordeal. "When the weather got real bad, my
father wrapped our feet in gunny sacks and tied them to our ankles with wire. At school
our teacher would unwrap the sacks, hang them to dry by the fire, and then help us put
them back on when it was time to leave. That was all we could do because, of course,
none of us had overshoes." Pauline feels that one mistake many parents made at that
time was to keep their children out of school too much. "Some of the boys in the 5th and
6th grades were great big things, old enough to be in high school today and when they
would get restless and bad, I can remember the teachers sending them to the river to
bring their own willows to be whipped."

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Alfred DeHerrera liked politics. In Paulina's words, "He was always 'taken' by politics."
About 1924 Alfred decided to run for sheriff of Conejos County. If there was any big
money around to buy the politicians into office, Alfred didn't get any of it. He had to use
his own. When he lost the election, the family was nearly broke. To help recover the
losses Alfred moved the family to Millikin which was about half.way between Denver
and Ft. Collins where he could get farm work. "We didn't stay there very long. It was
strange country to us. Dad worked long enough to buy a car and then we headed back
for the valley. We stopped to visit someone in Salida. While we were there, Dad found a
job in a creosote plant, so we stayed and bought a home there. I was about 16 or 17 by
then."
Soon afterward Pauline met Vic Rodriquez. "Vic was one of 12. His mother was dead.
My mama tried to help those kids. She sewed and mended their clothes and asked
them in for cookies and did many other things which only a mama can do." Vic was
working on the tram line to Shirley when he turned sweet on Pauline. "He began signing
his checks and just handing them to me. Mama said I better not spend any of that
because if Vic and I broke up, there could be trouble over the money. So I put it all in
the bank."
Vic and Pauline were married in 1928. Pauline handed Vic $900.00, every penny of
what he had given to her. With the $900.00 Vic set up a saw mill at Trujillo southwest of
Pagosa. Whatever lumber wasn't sold locally was trucked to Juanita and shipped on the
train to other markets. Later Vic moved his mill to Blanco Basin and finally to Red Creek
north of Bayfield .
When the government started building Vallecito Dam in 1937, Pauline got a new job.
She started doing laundry for all the crews working on the dam. "I had a gasoline
powered Maytag that ran from 7:00 a.m. till 7:00 p.m. every day. There were
14 7

�clotheslines stretched from tree to tree. I guess we were the first mountain laundramat. I
made about $10.00 per day. Sometimes my neighbor Mrs. Millsap would help and I
gave her half of what I made."
Pauline has good memories of Red Creek since most of the kids were raised there.
"They were good kids. We never had trouble with any of them. I guess being raised in
the mountains, they would have to be good kids. We always had plenty to do, both work
and fun. Every Saturday there was a dance. Someone brought a guitar and someone a
violin and did we dance! But no drinking. It seems like ii snowed more then, but it didn't
seem so hard on people then. We always had fun in the winter. If we needed food, we'd
hitch up a team to the sled and go lo town. All those years seem so carefree. We never
had any worries. I didn't think I ever had any worries until Vic died. We had just bought
this house and lived here two months when he died."
Pauline has seven children. All of them are married. Irene lives in Bayfield; Ernest in
Bellingham, Washington; Melvin in Ignacio; Jeanie in Farmington; Helen in Los
Angeles; Delia Rae in Bloomfield; and Mary Ann in Colorado Springs. Pauline has 30
grandchildren and 4 great-grandchildren.
A lot of years have passed, but Pauline well remembers the "Star" automobile Vic
bought to bring her to Trujillo. She remembers the frightful, narrow road over Wolf
Creek Pass and how much she really didn't want to leave Salida. "I always missed
Salida. I liked it there and didn't want to leave. And I have always missed the Italians.
They were good neighbors, nice people. All of the years we've spent on this side of the
divide I've been happy, but I never felt really at home. I always had in the back of my
mind a wish to go back over there, but the last few years I feel different. Ignacio is a
nice town with a lot of nice people. I think I belong here now."
June, 1975-Shelby Smith

148

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                <text>Biography of Pauline (De Herrera) Rodriquez based on an interview conducted by Shelby Smith. Originally included in the June, 1975 issue of "The Thoughtful Years" newsletter published by the Ignacio Senior Center. Later included in the book "Oral Histories of the Southern Pine River Valley" by Shelby Smith.</text>
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                    <text>Pearl E. Casias
(Southern Ute Tribal Elder)

My name is Pearl Emily Casias, and I was born on the Southern Ute Indian Reservation
in the old Tribal Affairs building. At the time that I was born in the 40s it was called Taylor
Hospital. It closed in 1957; it was a Bureau oflndian Affairs hospital. I was raised by my
grandparents: Martha Tree and Felipe Lucero. We lived on an 80-acre allotment approximately
two miles north of here [Ignacio]. At the time that I was growing up I recall the streets in
Ignacio were gravel. There wasn't any pavement and there were gutters on the sides of the
roads. But, it was an interesting community. We had a pool hall, and I recall my grandparents
going to dances on the weekends at about four places that they used to have dances. So, t must
have been a community thing to have social dances well before I was born and during the time
that I was growing up.
What is now the Ignacio School District bus garage used to be a dance hall. The kitchen
appliance warehouse on Main Street was called Rebus Hall-they used to have dances there. It
belonged to Mr. Rebus. Then, they had dances at what is now the Head Start building (it used to
be the Ute Vocational School), and on some weekends they would have dances in the gym.
After they built the T.P. Lounge, they used to have dances in there, also. So, there were four
places where people could go to the dances. Most of the community, and from the outlying
communities, would come and they would socialize with each other. Some of the tribal
members had bands, so they played for one dance hall or another. Occasionally my grandparents
would take me, but it wasn't very often. My grandmother would meet with some of the ladies
who lived in La Boca and out in the Allison/Tiffany area. So, it was a social dance, but it was
also a chance to meet with old friends and, possibly, to make new friends.
I was telling an individual that had moved into this area back in the 70s, that I remember
walking to Ignacio with my grandparents or with my aunt because we didn't have transportation.
In the summer we'd walk, we'd walk two miles. Sometimes on our way back we'd catch a ride
with someone who was going our way and they'd drop us off In the fall and during the winter
my grandfather would go on the horse to get groceries, or he'd make arrangements with some of
the neighbors and he'd ride into town with them. In the spring and early summer my
grandparents would ride horses into town and we'd ride with them. We brought empty flour
sacks or gunny sacks, put the groceries in them, then put them on the horses for the ride back. I
remember the road 516 (that's the road I live on)-it goes from Highway 172 all the way to
Bayfield-it was a gravel road. But, County Road 517 that comes right here in front of the Tribal
Building it was just a dirt road. It didn't have gravel. After it rained and the people who had
cars went over it, it became packed down. So, it was a lot of fun to take your shoes off and walk
on the dirt road.
There was a theater in Ignacio; it was called the Ute Theater. It's an empty building and
an empty lot right now between the Sidekick Lounge and where a real estate office used to be.
Mr. And Mrs. Preston (he was a farmer and drove a milk truck for the dairy farmers around the
area) ran the theater with their family at night. I remember we'd come down after my
grandfather bought a car-we'd come down on the weekends. My grandfather liked Westerns, so
we got to see a lot of Westerns. It was real interesting, because you could buy a bag of popcorn

�Page 2 of5

for 10 cents and a soda for a nickel. But, you know, those days are long gone. I go to the
movies occasionally and for eight dollars you can get a large bag of popcorn and a soda. That's
a far cry from the 15 cents for popcorn and a soda.
Yeah, things have really changed economically and, I guess, the whole atmosphere of the
small town. It's grown quite a bit. I remember they had two dress shops: part of one of the dress
shops is part of the grocery store (the Shur-Value) and it also used to be a cafe. There's a place
on Main Street called Nuuciu Bible Worship Church, I guess it's called, and that used to be a
dress shop. Then, we had a drug store, which was a nice place to go. They had a soda jerk who
wore white pants, a white jacket, and a white hat. His name was Mr. Brits; he worked behind the
soda fountain and his wife worked on the dry goods side of the drug store. It was fun to go in
there. I remember seeing the little soda table, or the little tables, and they had wrought iron
chairs. They had stools at the counter, and you could get milkshakes, chocolate malt, or real ice
cream (it wasn't ice milk or whatever). So, it was fun coming to town.
I remember the bank: Ignacio State Bank. It was run by the Turners, and they lived a
block behind the bank. Suzie Turner was Mr. Tuner's wife, and she was a very good friend of
my grandmother's. She helped her balance her checkbook. It was fun going into the bank,
because people knew each other by first names and it was very 'neighborly,' for lack of a better
word. I remember Mrs. Turner was more than happy to help my grandmother, because my
grandmother had a checking account. That was real interesting, because !didn't know of too
many tribal members that had bank accounts. So, I always thought of my grandmother as being
more progressive than some of the tribal members that I knew.
A lot of the tribal elders that were her age or older preferred to speak in the Ute language.
It was interesting to sit around and listen to what stories they had to tell. When we'd come to
town my grandfather would visit with some of his friends, and my grandmother would sit in the
grocery store and visit with some of her friends. So, it was real interesting to listen to their
stories.
It was a whole different era where children were seen and not heard. That was one of the
things that we learned when we were growing up. But, Ignacio has gone through quite a change.
For as long as I can remember Lawrence Wiseman owned the hardware store, and as he got older
his son, Tom, took over. Saul Padia used to work for him, and Saul's wife used to work at the
bank as a teller. She was very accommodating for all the people who came into the bank; she
was a very nice person. I think Nelly Price was Postmistress when I was very young, and then
later on Mr. Pierson became Postmaster. I grew up knowing them as U.S. Postal workers. Mr.
Jones owned The Ignacio Chieftain and The Bay.field Blaze. He was the editor of the newspaper,
and his shop was where the Dancing Spirit Gallery is today.

The pool hall was right next door to The Chieftain office (or the print shop). It was
owned by Dan Velasquez. Mr. Lopez (I can't remember his first name) used to manage the pool
hall. When you walked into the pool hall there were pinball machines in the front and there was
a freezer, so they sold ice cream cones. It was like a convenience store. You could buy canned
goods, soda pop, bread, canned lunchmeats, and pork and beans-things like that. And, there was
a dividing half; it didn't go all the way up to the ceiling, and behind that were the pool tables and

�Page 3 of5

they had some card tables. They apparently played poker and had interesting card games back
there. I remember when we were growing up my brother was a pinball fanatic. He always made
outstanding scores in the pinball machine game. So, he hung out at the pool hall a lot just to play
the pinball machines. And, of course, my grandfather liked to play cards a lot, so he'd take my
brother and they'd go to the pool hall together.
I have three children: I have two girls and a son. My oldest daughter works part-time.
My son works at the casino; he's been there since before we remodeled and it became a casino.
He worked in the restaurant before being converted to work in the casino. So, when he went to
work in the casino he worked in 'The Cage', and he's been there for 10 years. He worked in the
restaurant for about 14 years before that, so he's been working there for 14, going on 15, years.
My youngest daughter works in Durango with the Tierra Group, with the Growth Fund.
I had an older brother. He died when I was 16. My mother remarried-she divorced my
father-so I had a half-brother, and he died two years ago. I don't have any other brothers and
sisters. I just have my children and grandchildren. I have five grandchildren: four
granddaughters and one grandson. My parents are deceased and, of course, my grandparents are
gone, too. I just lost my aunt three years ago; it'll be four years this summer. So, I'm pretty
much the matriarch of my family. I tell my children about the way things were when I was
growing up. I've seen a lot of changes. Like I was saying, that family that came to live here, I
would tell them that I used to walk to town. He'd say, 'Oh no, people already had cars' and
'That's impossible.' So, I would say, 'It might seem impossible to you, but things on the
reservation were slower than in mainstream America.' It was in '54 and '55 that we finally had a
water-well dug. We finally got running water and electricity and propane. So, it was the mid50s when we finally got the modem conveniences. It's interesting, because my brother and I
both grew up hauling water and wood chips, and he had to bring in coal. As soon as we got
home from school we changed our clothes and were busy until dinnertime. Then we had other
chores, and then we had time for homework. You know, a couple of weeks ago (when there was
a cold spell) my water pipes froze. You go from having no conveniences to the conveniences of
today and then, all of a sudden, you can't tum on the tap water because the pipes are frozen.
And, you think, 'How did I survive before?'
I remember going to town after Halloween, and a lot of the townspeople had outdoor
facilities, they didn't have running water. There were two places in town to get water. In one
section of town all of the people would go over to where the elementary school is. There was a
water pump there. So, they got their water there. And, I think, there was a water faucet at the
other end of town. There were two places in town where you could get running water. The
townspeople also burned wood and coal. After Halloween most of the outhouses had been
turned over. Kids would pull tricks and turn over the outhouses. (Must have been chaos during
that time!)
I think it was during the early to mid-60s that the authors of Native American Programs
made grants to rural communities. That's what provided the possibility of the town to receive
funding so that they could put in gutters and sidewalks. I think it was in the late 50s, some time
during the 50s, that they paved the roads. It's just been recently that progress has come to
Ignacio. I think the Tribe has provided a lot of benefits to the community. Having grown up in

�Page 4 of5

the community and with children from the two other ethnic groups, you develop friendships. So,
the people that live here, I fell, have good relationships simply because they live here. Who
knows? Maybe it's just the people that come here that change the atmosphere of a small town
setting. I can walk down the street today and½ or¾ of the people I do not know. Of course,
there're still the people that I know, who I grew up with. So, the community goes through some
changes.
During the summer they have the San Ignacio Fiesta at the end of July. It's to honor the
patron saint: Saint Ignatius. What I remember when I was a little girl, we'd go to the church
services and some of the tribal members would go and they'd help prepare the feast. The Indians
and the Hispanics would have this big feast. We'd have what you would consider a huge potluck
dinner. There was no charge. The tribal members would provide some of the supplies for this
dinner. Some of the tribal men would assist in the cooking and what have you. Everyone would
sit down and eat together, and they'd have games in the afternoon and Indian dancing. Some of
the tribal elder men would come and they'd drum and sing for some of the young people. And,
the young men would perform war dances. Everybody just king of got along together.
I enjoyed taking part in the community. Then, in the fall, the Tribe would put on, and we
still do (I think it's the 84th) Ute Fair. And, that's for tribal members. They'd have games for
adults and children, alike. They'd have a baseball game, tug of war (women against women or
men against women). It was a lot of fun to watch, and a lot of the tribal members participated.
They brought all of their agricultural produce, livestock, and poultry. I saw turkeys, and rabbits,
and chickens. I don't think I saw any guineas. The Tribe would provide prizes for First, Second,
and Third. They'd have a big rodeo, and just recently they've started have a huge powwow. So
it's kind of gone through an evolution. It's been interesting to see the evolution from what it was
then to what it is today-it's dramatically different. Everybody came for the entries: from the
west side to the east side of the reservation. They'd get people to come in from the community
to judge the arts and crafts, the sewing, the canning, the livestock and poultry, and what have
you. They'd have horse races and, like I said, a rodeo-everybody would participate in the rodeo.
It's quite different from what it used to be; it's gone through a lot of changes.
I remember we had a tribal member that was like the Chief of Police for quite a few
years, and he worked really well with the Town Marshall. When we became teenagers we had
some friends who owned cars; they came from middle class families, I guess. So, we'd ride
around with our friends. There weren't any streetlights in Ignacio when I was a teenager. So,
we'd turn the lights off on the car and play 'cat and mouse' with the Town Marshall. They
would chase us around through the alleys. It was harmless; we weren't involved in vandalism or
destruction of anybody's property. It was just playing 'cat and mouse' with the Town Marshall.
I'm sure he knew who we were and the kid who owned the vehicle. They, for some reason,
never did catch up with us.
I went to school here at the Ute Vocational School until I was in the fifth grade. The Ute
Vocational School was both boarding school and day school. Some of us were day school
students and we were bussed. The Indian students that came from the Navajo Reservation and
the Ute Mountain or Northern Ute Reservations stayed in the dorms. Those ofus that lived here
were bussed to the school, and in the evening we rode home on the bus.

�Page 5 of5

When I was promoted to the sixth grade, I asked my grandmother if I could go to Ignacio
Elementary (I wanted to see what it was like to be in a public school). So I went and I enjoyed it.
The following year, when I was promoted to the seventh grade, the schools in Ignacio were
consolidated. The school closed down and all of the students went to the public school. So,
even though they were boarding school students they went to the public schools. The Ute
Vocational School became the Junior High School. It was a joint school. That's why it's called
"' 'TI-JT So~ they urillzed
ute-Ybcatibfial School for fue Junlor H{gii Sclro6lt ?111, 8th,., atl1ci 9111
grades. All of the elementary students went to Ignacio Elementary, and the high school students
were in Ignacio High School. Because of the increase in students (because of the school district
becoming joint) they received more funding from the State. They built a new high school. It
benefited not only the Indian students it also benefited the district. That happened in '57.

me

At that time they also closed down the hospital. The government gave the hospital to the
Tribe. And, so, the Tribe remodeled the building and converted it into offices. That's where we
were located until last fall when they finished this building [the Leonard C. Burch Tribal Affairs
Building].
My grandmother was Ute and my grandfather was Hispanic. When we were growing up
we learned to speak Ute; that was our first language. Our second language was Spanish. When I
went to school (I went to school when I was six years old) I couldn't speak English. Of course,
my brother learned to speak English (he was two years older than I), because he was in the third
grade when I started school. We carried on a tri-lingual conversation. When we'd get home
from school my grandmother would speak to us in Ute, my grandfather would speak o us in
Spanish, and we'd respond in English. So, they became familiarized with the English language.
They could both speak English, but they weren't fluent or proficient. The more we learned the
more they learned. (My grandmother was fluent in Spanish.) It's interesting: the first time I
filled out an employment application, I said I speak one foreign language and that's English.
Most people chuckle when they read my application or my resume and they see I speak a foreign
language: English.
Interviewed by Michael G.
Miller (VISTA worker) on
January 13, 2004.

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                    <text>RICHARD AND HENRIETTA (Benson) GARDNER
Richard Harold Gardner was born near Sioux Falls, South Dakota, on April 1, 1896, the
youngest Child of George and Hanna Gardner. George had been reared in Dearborn,
Michigan, where he went to school with Henry Ford, (The old Gardner home is now a
part of Henry Ford's Pioneer Village at Dearborn). George went west at the age of 19,
settled at Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and took advantage of the Homestead Law to
acquire farmland. When George died at the age of 48, he was farming 1500 acres of
rich Missouri Valley farmland with horses. After his death Hanna moved the children to
town and rented the land to others.
"Heinie and I attended the same high school," Dick recalls, "but since I was older and a
member of a different class in school, I never knew her till several years later. I didn't
have much time to get into mischief. When I wasn't going to school, I was working. Part
of the time I did chores for farmers. For a while I helped the school custodian until I got a
job at the telephone company. It amounted to 40 hours per week counting all the
evening hours and an all-night shift Saturday night through Sunday morning. I worked on
the test board tracing down malfunctions in the circuits. Originally, I was paid $30.00 per
month which later was raised to $45.00. In summers I really made big money. I traveled
with a telephone construction gang as time clerk and bookkeeper. We installed
telephone systems in small towns in South Dakota and Minnesota. For that I was paid
$75.oo per month plus my keep. Those were in the days before cables and micro-wave
transmission. Since every conversation required two separate lines, the telephone poles
of those days were laden with several cross arms and dozens of wires. Long distance
calls could only be heard a certain distance. The farthest city we could speak with
directly was Chicago. Beyond that an operator in Chicago would have to relay the
message on to another operator until it reached the party being called. I learned to use
the telegraph. Telegraph messages were relayed on the phone lines without interfering
with conversations. Because of my work I always had money for high school and for
college."
Dick was about to finish his sophomore year at South Dakota State when he enlisted in
the Army for World War 1. He sailed to France in a convoy of 13 ships. The crossing
required 13 days, landing in France on Friday the 13th. Many of the men were spooked
by these numbers, but any bad luck incurred did not affect Dick. He was a member of a
special railroad unit which built narrow gauge tracks and operated supply trains right up
to the trenches. "Once our outfit connected its lines to some German tracks, crossed into
German Territory and pulled a German train back into Allied territory."
Dick returned to America in July of 1919 and enrolled in college again. The first day back
his friends invited him to go with them to a dance. Though he didn't have a date, Dick
decided to go. As soon as he arrived, one of his friends pointed out Heinie and said,
"there is a girl from Sioux Falls. You should get acquainted."
That's exactly what Dick did, Henrietta Amelia is the youngest child of Henry and Amelia
Benson, both of whom were born in Sweden, My parents taught me English first, then
Swedish. Father was a laborer. I lived in the same house I was born in until I married.
62

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Heinie had three brothers and one sister. After graduating from high school, she enrolled
at South Dakota state to study home economics and commerce. She had been a
secretary before college and afterwards did secretarial and book-keeping work all her
life.
Even though Dick and Heinie were serious students, they found some time for fun, A
new music professor from Hew York who knew little about the ways of the west roomed
in the same boarding house as Dick. On a snowy, windy night Dick and some of his
friends took the prof on a snipe hunt and left him literally holding the bag. About 2:00
A.M. when the boys were about to get worried, the professor came wearily up the stairs.
After dating for four years Dick and Heinie were married in 1923. Dick says, "Some
people may think that is a long time to date someone, but in those days a boy was
supposed to have a job and something to offer before he got married. I had a degree in
agriculture and one in school administration. My first job was with the first rural
consolidated school system in the state at Madison. We had the first school buses and
worked all the bugs out of running a consolidated arrangement. After two years of
teaching agriculture, I was selected to be the superintendent. I stayed with that two
years and then took the job of county agent."
When World War II started Dick felt a responsibility to help with the war effort. He quit
the county agent job and started teaching a Radio School for the Army Air Corps. At first
he was stationed in Sioux Falls, then in St. Louis. In 1943 the Gardners returned to
Madison where Dick resumed his job with the school until 1956. It was not a matter of
being unhappy with life in Madison which started the Gardners looking for another place
to live. They loved their life and friends there,
"We had never lived outside South Dakota," Heinie says, "and we decided if we were
ever going to see any other part of the country, we should go then. Dick resigned his job
and we started looking. Actually, we had Colorado in mind from the start. When we got
to Denver, Dick visited the Colorado Department of Education and learned there were
openings for administrators all over the state. We made a list of possible places and
began looking. If we didn't like the looks of a place, we wouldn't stop. We almost didn't
come to Ignacio because an outdated map showed an unpaved road over here. We
immediately liked the looks of the country around here, but did not make a final decision
until later. After visiting several schools in Texas, Dick called back and accepted the job
in Ignacio. He was principal at the high school for 3 years and, also, of the grade school
3 years until he retired in 1962. That same year we went to the World's Fair in Seattle
and then on to Hawaii to visit the grave of our son who died in the war,"
The Gardner's son, Richard Robert, whom they called Bobby, was born in 1924. Bobby
was tall, 6'2", ambitious and had high ideals. He entered the Marines in 1942 and was
killed in action on March 13, 1945, on lwo Jima. He was awarded the Silver Star, Purple
Heart with 2 gold stars, Presidential Unit, Citation ribbon with star, Asiatic-Pacific
Campaign Medal and the World War II Victory Medal.
After retiring, Dick served on the Ignacio Town Board, as town clerk and as a manager of
the town gas system. He had been active in the Lion's Club, American Legion, VFW, the
63

�Regional Planning Commission and Alpha Zeta, a national agricultural society. Both of
them have been active in the Presbyterian Church and have held various service
positions in the local church.
"We've had good friends everywhere we have lived," the Gardners say, "but we'd never
by happy away from the mountains."
Shelby Smith, October 1977

64

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                    <text>ROSELIA (Munoz) BACA
Though Spanish-American people had lived in the Rio Grande valley for years, few
except prospectors and fugitives from justice had ventured into the San Juan basin to
stay until about 1875 when a wagon train of Spanish-American settlers from Culebra
moved across the passes to homestead in this area. About the same time families from
EL Rito near Espanola moved in to the San Juan valley near present day Blanco. One
of these was the family of Presentation and Mercedes Munoz. Their first child was a
daughter whom they named Roselia. Mr. Munoz farmed a well-irrigated farm in the river
valley. Except for sugar and coffee and patent medicines, the family produced almost
all their food and other needs on the farm. Since no refrigeration was available, it was
difficult to keep meat in the summertime. They made jerky with some of the meat. The
rest they ate or shared with the neighbors.
For fun Roselia and her younger brothers and sisters loved to swim in a large hole in
their irrigation ditch. Any toys they had they made themselves. Roselia remembers
making her own dolls and doll clothing. "Usually," she says, "there was not much time
for fun, since all work was hand work on the farm, all of us, even the children had work
to do everyday. " Life became more difficult when Roselia was 13. Her mother died
that year. Immediately Roselia became "mother" to her 6 younger brothers and sisters.
Roselia has since had 12 children of her own and has a major hand in caring for some
of her grandchildren.

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Now 80 years old,Roselia says, "I feel like I have always been a mother. "Occasionally
Mr. Munzo allowed the children to attend dances in the area. At one of them 17 year
old Roselia met a stranger named Simon Baca who had recently moved from Colorado
to work on construction of the new citizens ditch. Roselia was 17 Simon was 31. When
asked why she chose to marry someone this much older. Roselia says, "Simon was a
very nice guy and 1 wanted someone nice to take care of me. "Marriage soon meant
more people to take care of. She and her husband moved into her father's house.
When the first of her 12 children was born she was still keeping house for her father and
caring for her brothers and sisters. Each week she used 251 bs. of flour to make light
bread for the family. During the warm months she supervised the drying and canning of
the winter supply of garden produce, fed her family and her father's family plus any
hired hand on the farm.
For five years Simon drove a horse and buggy on the mail route between Largo and
Aztec. When her younger brothers and sisters were old enough to take care of them
selves, the Bacas moved to a farm on the Mesa, south of Ignacio. Simon worked for
the tribe as well as caring for sheep and goats. In the evenings he enjoyed calling for
square dances and was very talented on the violin. Most years the children had to stay
out of school till at least Thanksgiving to help put up hay and to harvest the potatoes
and beans. For fun the boys liked to go rabbit hunting. During good years all the
children gathered pinon nuts. The family kept what they wanted and sold the remainder
for cash.

5

�One summer day, Simon and Roselia were away from home. One of the children must
have been playing with matches for the farmhouse burned to the ground. Manuel who
was the oldest one at home-was barely able to get the younger ones out of the house.
In five minutes the whole place was a roaring inferno. Roselia was sad not only
because they lost all their clothing and household goods, but also because she had lost
family mementos from previous generations. The family had to start all over again to
acquire the possessions of a life time.
Seven of Roselia's boys were in the service during WW II and the Korean War. She
recalls being very worried, fearing what news might come in the mail, but all of them
came back. Simon died at the age of 87 in 1969. All of Ros.elias' 12 children are still
living. They are scattered every where across the west from Denver to Seattle. Roselia
who is still healthy and very active spends a Great amount of time traveling and visiting
kids and readily admits how much she enjoys it. "I'm on vacation all the time," she
states, "I have to keep track of my children and grandchildren."
by Shelby Smith

6

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ROSITA ROMERO
Rosita's daughter, Louise Pesata, believes her mother is in her mid-nineties, but on one
knows exactly, for the Taos people did not count the years or the days when she was
born. They told their children, "you were born in the snow time or when the leaves were
green." Any exact records of her birth were destroyed when the Guadalupe Church
burned many years ago, but none of th is counting of years and of dates is of any
concern to Rosita. What she does know is that she was born in a dwelling on the
second level of the north pueblo at Taos. The same dwelling has been her home for
about 90 years and is still her home whenever she wishes to go there.
Rosita is the only child of Venturo Romero (he died of a stroke when she was a young
child) and of Manuelita Lujan Romero, who lived until 1927. When Rosita was 6 years
old, she and many other children in the pueblo were sent to the Indian School at Santa
Fe. They were loaded into wagons and driven to Taos Junction to meet the train which
came from Alamosa on its way to Santa Fe. This particular train and route was known
as the "Chili Line." All students were issued uniforms, the principal feature of which was
a large, wide-brimmed, black straw hat. She spent three years at the school. Her
memory of those years is primarily of "looking at the books," and "playing on the
swings" and of how long the year seemed with no vacations for holidays or feast days.
After third grade Rosita attended a one room school near Taos for a while and that was
enough school for her. When Rosita was a young woman, the town of Taos began to
change from a small, but historic town into a sophisticated center for well known artists
and authors. The attraction for the Taos Valley to the artists and their wealthy followers
is evident to anyone who visits there today. Its climate and beauty and blend of cultures
is still a stimulating environment. The influx of wealthy people was a fortunate
circumstance for Rosita, since it provided her with plentiful work as a domestic servant.
It was necessary for her to work, since she supported her daughter Louisa entirely by
herself. In the course of her work, Rosita was employed by artists such as Blanche C.
Grant, Victor Higgins, Eleanor Kissel and John Baldin. She also worked for Dr. Thomas
Martin who was clinic doctor in the 1920's, and for John Collier, one of the Indian
Commissioners. During all the years of work which only ended when she retired in
1973, Rosita walked the 3 miles from the Pueblo to her place of work and home again
through snow and rain and summer heat.
At home Rosita's life was little different from the lives of her ancestors hundreds of
years ago. The pueblo allows no plumbing, electricity or other changes. Rosita carried
all her water from the river, gathered all her wood for fires in the canyons and hauled it
on her back to the village and up the ladder to her dwelling. In her spare time she
gathered food for the winter, various greens and wild spinaches, mushrooms, plums
and chokecherries to be dried. Her principal craft was the making of shoes and
moccasins. She learned to scrape and dry and tan the deer skins. One of the most
common tanning agents was boiled animal brains, which were rubbed and worked into
the drying leather. Rosita chose moccasin making because it could be stopped and

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14 9

�resumed easily at spare moments before or after working in town. Other crafts such as
pottery making cannot be interrupted so often.
Most of the people at the pueblo are initiated members of one of the clans known as the
"knife people", the "wooden earring people", the "water people", etc. Rosita is one of the
"water people". Each clan has its own initiation procedures, its secrets, its ceremonies,
its projects and its own sacred religious traditions, much of which is probably hundreds
of years old. Initiated members receive the security and encouragement of an extended
family. Both men and women can be members of the clans, and all attend some
meetings in the kivas. However, the clans are definitely male dominated and many
meetings are limited to the men. Taos people believe the preseivation of their culture is
strongly dependent upon the maintenance of the clans. Therefore, they diligently
encourage all their children to be initiated into one of the clans where they can learn the
songs, legends and ancient religion of the pueblo.
One of the efforts of the clans is to give the young members instruction and practice in
the various dances and songs as the feast days approach. The principal feasts occur at
Christmas with the deer dance, at New Years with the turtle dance, at January 6th with
the Buffalo dance. The corn dances are performed in May, June and July and St.
Jerome's feast is on September 30th.
Today more than half of the Taos People live outside the pueblos, a trend which is a
little worrisome lo the tribe. The pueblo itself was frozen to any further additions or
changes about 15 years ago. Maintenance of the ancient structures is a never-ending
task. All snow must be immediately removed from the roofs to prevent seepage and
rotting of roof timbers. Each family is responsible for its own roof. All exterior walls are
mud-stuccoed every summer.
Though Rosita is alert and surprisingly agile for a person in her 90's, a scary fall on one
of the ladders in 1979 convinced her granddaughter, Josephine Lefthand, that it was
time for Rosita to leave the pueblo. Until that time Rosita was still climbing the ladders
with her water and fuel. Presently, Rosita lives comfortably with Tom and Josephine in
Ignacio. From time to time she returns to Taos lo visit her daughter and to attend the
feasts. At home she still bakes bread and tortillas for her grandchildren. She only
recently stopped dancing at the pow-wows. When the grandchildren try to tease her into
joining the dances again, she tells them, "I've done my part. Now you do yours."
P.S. Rosita is adjusting very nicely lo using thermostats, the electric range, etc. in her
granddaughter's home.
Shelby Smith - November, 1980 (Special thanks lo Josephine Lefthand for translating
the inteiview)

150

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                    <text>ROY WILLIAMS
Roy Hancock Williams was born in a tepee in the Florida River valley near the present
site of the La Plata Airport on August 8, 1889. His parents were Price Williams, a
Southern Ute, and Marie Capote from the Northern Ute Tribe,
"My parents kept sheep, horses and some cattle and moved around to find good
pasture. We always came back to the Florida. The river bottom was a good place to
raise potatoes and corn. The whole area had deer and other game. There was no better
river than the Florida, It was clear and full of fish and turtles. While I was still young, my
parents built a two-room frame house in the river bottom. We had good neighbors,
Nicholas and Peter Eaton lived nearby. It was a very god life. No boundaries and no
fences. We could go to the high mountains or to the valleys to find pasture or to hunt
without anyone to tell us no."
"When I was ten years old, my parents sent me to the boarding school at Ignacio, It was
pretty bad there at first, I spoke only Ute, After a while I began to learn English from the
other children. I liked the holidays when I could ride our horses and be free. In the
summers I herded the sheep for my Dad, There was good hunting around the sheep
camps, I shot my first doe when I was 16. Some of the bucks we got were so heavy we
had to cut them up or carry them on a horse."
"I don't go to pow-wows any more, but I liked them when I was young. The tribe used to
put on a real show. There were different styles of dancing, more than now. The Bear
Dance was always the first dance of the season. In the 192O's the Sun Dance was
started here. I think it came from Oklahoma."
"I went only to the 5th grade at the boarding school. When I quit, I enrolled at the
country school at La Pasta for a while to learn Spanish."
"In 1918 I was ready to enlist in the army to go to the war in France, but before I got in,
the war ended so I traveled around working at different jobs for a while. In 1920 I got to
visit my grandfather, James Capote, in Ft. Duchesne. He told me many things about the
LIies, but I have forgotten most of it. My father died in 1921. Soon afterward, we built a
house north of Ignacio. I worked at the Indian Agency for many years plowing and
running the thrashing machine."
Roy married Labrara Radea. They had one daughter, Mary Suazo. Later Roy married
Mary Bean. Their children are Mary Santisteven, Vonnestine Herrera, and Eileen
Weaver.
Roy remembers seeing automobiles around Ignacio as early as 1913, but he never
owned his own car until 1939 when he bought a Mercury. He says, "We had a good life
after the second World War. I had a good job and also made money raising sheep and
cattle. We owned seven different cars and did some traveling around,"
Mary died in 1961. The only one of Roy's brothers or sisters still living is Belle Cutthair,
Recently Roy moved from his home north of Ignacio to one of the apartments at the
Senior Center, He is now 79, His vision is fair and his hearing is excellent. He says, "I
never thought I'd live this long, but here I am."
Shelby Smith -- September, 1975
174

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                    <text>Ruby Garcia
(Southern Ute Elder)

My name is Ruby T. Garcia, and I live at 1328 County Road 516, Ignacio, CO 81307. I
was born on November 24th, 1918 in Ignacio. That was during the war; First World War. My
first school was at Santa Fe. We left on the train and when we got to Santa Fe, they told us to go
to our grade room. They asked my sister first what grade she was, and she said she was third
grade. Then they asked me, and I told them I was third grade. But, I didn't even know nothing;
I didn't even know how to read, I didn't even know how to talk English. And, they sent me back
to the kindergarten. But, I finally picked up. That's about it at Santa Fe.
I've been to different places. I've been to Towaoc Indian School; I was there from the
third and fourth. Then I went to school at Ignacio for fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth. And then,
I went to Sherman Institute in Riverside, CA I graduated there. I took up home economics, but
like I always tell the people, 'I'm a jack of all trades and a master at none.'
I came home; I got a job at the hospital. I was a Nurse's Aide. That was kind of
interesting; working with sick people and caring for them. Then I went to different places. I
went to Salt Lake City and I sewed a lot. Sewed clothes for the Army. Then I went to Salt Lake.
I worked there for a while: making swim suits.
Then I decided to go (World War II was going on), to go to California and get me a job.
They hired me, they said I had to drive. And, I told them I didn't know how to drive. They said,
'Well, you're froze to it. You're going to learn one way or the other.' So I finally learned how
to drive a bus. I drove the Italian prisoners to work, you know, there on the field. But, there
were MPs [military policemen] on the bus and I wasn't afraid. I'd hear them talk, and I asked
one of the Italians if they knew English. And, they pointed to one and they said, 'Oh, they're
telling you bad things.' I told them, 'You tell them I told them to shut up or they're going to get
out!' Boy they were quiet. I had to laugh at them. We ate with them at the mess hall. They had
their own, you know; the prisoners-of-war. But it was interesting. Afterwards I wasn't afraid of
them; I got used to them. And then the war was over. .. I came home. Now I'm here, in one
piece.
I worked for the Tribe. I worked with them for twelve years; with the welfare. After that
I worked for the Peaceful Spirit; that's alcohol. I went to training to be a counselor. I enjoyed it.
But, then, I got tired of the whole thing. I said I might as well retire, and I retired. Now I'm
home and I'm enjoying it: I go to the casino and have fun, lose or win. Sometimes I win and
sometimes I lose, but it's fun. I meet a lot of people, I enjoy it; it's something different than to
live alone. Living alone, people say, is aweful. But, I manage. I crochet, I do beadwork, I
occupy my time, and when I'm tired of that, I go to the casino and talk and laugh and joke with
them people.
Lately, I've been in poor health. Other than that, I'm okay. My folks come to see me.
That's my great-granddaughters [two ofRuby's great-granddaughters and her great-greatgrandson were present during the interview] and that little one is my great great grandson. And
thi.s little one [the father of Ru by' s great great grandson], we' re going to send him to dance at the

�powwow [Laughter]. They're going to have a powwow pretty soon. They're having two
powwows next month; one for the casino and one for Gerald Hall [?].
[M. Miller: What were your parents' names?]
I was born out of wed-lock, let's put it that way. But, I knew who my father was; he
came to me. My mother's name was Uterpy [sic?] Taylor. That's why my name was Ruby
Taylor, because she wasn't married when she had me. But just the same, life went on. Life has
been good, and it's still good providing I get off of this oxygen! And, now, they've got me
blowing on that thing [points to a medical device] in my mouth. Pretty soon you'll see me like
this [makes a bloated gesture], full of air. My daughter's grandson told me, 'Grandma, your
stomach is getting big. Are you going to have a baby?' And I said, 'No, I'm full of air.'
[Laughs] And he said, 'How did you get that air inside of you?' And I told him through this
[points to the oxygen tube in her nostrils]. You know, they're funny. They say, 'no fools, no
fun.' Right? That's about my life.
[M. Miller: 'What was your husbands name?']
My husband's name was Joe Weaver; the father ofmy two daughters (Arlene and
Lillian). They're both married and look at all that bunch of accumulated kids from me and them
two girls [points to a wall full of photographs]. There's five generations on there. Quite a
bunch, huh? Look at this white-headed woman [points to herself in a generational picture of her
family]. [Laughs] There's five generations there; there's this little one when he was small [her
great great-grandson].
Well, it's good to be old and retired: staying home; don't have to worry about getting up
or nothing. But I hate to get sick.
[M. Miller: 'What do you remember about Sherman Indian School?']
I went to school there, I took up home economics. Learned how to cook; learned how to
sew; learned different things (canning, all that stuff). I liked it. I even went back to see the place
after I finished. Some of the old employees were still there. But, in those days things were
cheap.
I tell the people, bread used to be 10 cents a loaf You could buy tennis shoes like that
for a $1.98. You don't get them for no $1.98 anymore; they run from 60 on down. And other,
regular shoes (you know, I call them 'dancing shoes'), they're high priced, too. I think the
cheapest is $20. Food used to be cheap. Gas was $.25 a gallon, and look at it now. It's
outrageous. It's gone up, up, up.
It was hard for the people. Frank B. (he used to be an Anglo), he used to run a meat
shop. He used to donate food for the people to have a Bear Dance and a feast. They'd cook out
there. Oh, it was nice, but now it's so different. Everything is so high, and I don't ever
remember paying income tax. I don't know when that started, because I never paid income tax.
Or, maybe I overlooked it, didn't bother to do income tax. But, now, you have to.

�That's about the story of my life. I don't know what else there would be.
[M. Miller: 'Did you have brothers and sisters?']

I had brothers and sisters. My sister died, my two brothers died, and there's only one
brother left: Sylvian Taylor Valdez and me. There're just two ofus left. But my mother ... she
had one brother living, Henry .Taylor, but he passed away about three or four months ago (I don't
remember). He died. I lost my mother March the 24th, 1994. It's sad; sadness. Now I'm all
alone here. I don't like to interfere with my daughters: living with them (sort oflike
'mooching'). I'd rather live alone and live my own life. Get up when I feel like it; eat when I
feel like it; go to bed when I feel like it: nobody to boss me. But, my younger daughter tells me
(she sees me at the casino), 'Aren't you ready to go home?' And I told her, 'No, I'm having a
good time. You go home.' [Laughs] And I stayed down there. Then I called my brother up:
'Come and get me. Come and take me home,' when it's over. But, the casino never closes. The
people are still pulling on them machines. The card table, where I usually play, closes up at four.
(But they usually close up at 3 :30 to clean up and count the money.) So, I had my days too; go
down there.
I have won a big jackpot; $36,000. I won about four jackpots for $2,700 and I won
several ones for $1,200. But boy they really soaked me for income tax this past year. I said, 'I
ain't got no business winning so much. So I quit. I just play cards where they don't take income
tax.
[M. Miller: 'Did you dance when you were younger?']

Oh, boy. Believe it! I used to do the twist and everything [laughs]. They had a dance
down here and my uncle, the one that died that I was telling you about, came over. They were
having a dance dontest, and he came over to me and said, 'Come on. Let's dance, let's show
them how it's done.' So we went, and we won. They gave us $20, you know prize? But, now, I
can't even dance. My leg is still crippled up. That money cart at the casino hit me right here
[points to left leg], and since then I've been sick. My leg swells up and then I have a blood clot
on this leg. They doctored me on that; they gave me pills. Look at all these pills that I
take ... very sickening [laughs]. I used to like it [the Bear Dance]. I used to do the "Forty-nine,"
the powwow; I used to do that.
But, now, I don't do nothing. I stay home, I watch TV, go to bed, eat, go to the casino,
and come home and go to bed, then start all over again. I don't go down there every day.
Certain times. They were going to give a car away and they called my name, my ticket. They
had a lot of them over there get one. They called my name in there, and I won a free room at the
casino and two meals for two. I said, 'For two? Where's my better half?' And them guys
stopped and said, 'Me!' And I told them, 'No, I'm not going to take you. Beat it!' [Laughs]
I know Spanish, I know Ute, and I know a little bit of Navajo and Paiute; I know Paiute.
I understand Italian, because Italian is almost like Spanish. Do you think I had an interesting
life?

�Yeah, I don't want to win too much money, because they said I make too much money
and cut it off There's always a trick. They put up a casino where you make money, and then
when you make money they want a cut of30% off Gosh. IfI would have known, I wouldn't
have played that much. But, when I paly at the poker, then they give me tickets. They give them
to me and I sign my name. They called my name and them people hollered, 'There she is!'
[laughs] I had fun. My brother's son won the Jeep; he won it.
[M. Miller: 'Did you ever serve on the Tribal Council?']

No. I didn't have time for that. I was too busy helping the poor people. You know,
helping them to get pensions. Helping them, you know, what needs to be done. After I got
through eith that, I kind of helped the people that drink a lot. I used to drink a lot, too, after the
war ... beer.
[M. Miller: 'Did you serve on the Committee of Elders?']

Yeah, I was the first Chairman. They gave a party when I retired, and they gave me that
blanket. That's a Pendleton blanket; costs lots of money. The Council gave me that, and the one
that's on my bed, the Committee of Elders gave me that; another Pendleton blanket.
But, I'm satisfied. The Tribe gives the elders $3, 100 every month. That keeps you
going. It keeps me going to the casino [laughs]. Look at him [Ruby's great great-grandson],
he's still looking at me. He doesn't know me too well. Go to sleep, go to sleep [to her great
great-grandson]. I'm glad to know that all my tw.o daughters, my grandchildren and all, have
finished school and gone on to college. They have even graduated from college.

Interviewed by Michael
Miller (VISTA worker) in her
home on March 29th, 2004.

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                    <text>'l
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...J

RUDOLPH JOHN &amp; SUSIE (McClure) HASSTEDT
"My first language was German," Mr. Hasstedt recalls. "My parents were both born in
Germany and migrated to America when they were teenagers. My father, Jacob
Hasstedt, came to New York alone when he was 17, got a job in a store and soon
learned English well. He always had a noticeable accent, but he could speak in public, if
necessary. My mother, Julie Henning, moved to Boone, Iowa, where one or her brothers
had a bakery. Dad settled into that part of Iowa to farm. A few years after he and mother
were married, Dad began to develop a serious asthma condition. His doctors
recommended a move to western Kansas for a drier climate. When I was nine months
old, my parents loaded me, my two older sisters, and my older brother into a covered
wagon and headed west. They settled on a homestead near Buffalo Park - now called
Park, Kansas. Our first home there was a dugout, very warm, but small. Dad built a sod
stable for the farm animals. Each year we planted trees and made other improvements
to qualify for ownership of the homestead. The climate was harsh. There were snow
blizzards in winter and blistering hot winds in summer. I have passed green fields of
corn in the morning and returned in the evening to hear the leaves rattling and dry after
only one day of hot wind."
After the Hasstedt's claim was clear, they were permitted to file on a timber claim near"
the Saline River, 4 miles away. About this time, they bought a one room frame house to
move onto their land. Even though it was small, it was an improvement over the dugout.
The children climbed a ladder to sleep in the attic. The winter winds often sifted snow
through the shingles, piling snow on their beds.
"I started school at the age of 8. Since tax money was very scarce, school sessions
lasted at the most 6 months and sometimes only 4 months. There were no grades.
Pupils read in the First Reader, the Second Reader, etc. Each year every student, no
matter how old, started with the First Reader, reading through the familiar material, book
after book, for a review until they reached a difficult level. At that time the teacher would
assist them to learn the new words. My help was needed on the farm each fall. Instead
of starting to school in September, it was usually Thanksgiving before I could go. I began
plowing with a walking plow when I was 12. We used a breaking plow to cut the tightly
knit sod to open new land. Then we used a stirring plow to break up and tum the soil.
Following the plow is weary work. I caught myself sleepwalking many times, awakening
only when the plow had hit a rock. By attending school only part time, I was 21 years old
before I finished 8th grade."

....)

"There was little for young people to enjoy in those days. Sometimes had parties, or
school activities or church activities. The first minister in that part of Kansas was a
Congregationalist preacher. I joined that church when I was 12. From the time I was a
small child, I liked to listen to the preachers speak and wished I could do that. This
desire stayed with me. In my early 20's I decided to enroll in the Moody Bible Institute in
Chicago to learn more about the Bible. I rode the train to Chicago and was amazed at
the city. The lamplighters going on their evening rounds, the elevated railways,
everything was new to me. I attended the institute for 6 months and was still undecided
about preaching when I returned home. Soon after, some of the people told the minister,
'Let Rudolph preach.' It took me 2 weeks to write a sermon. When the day came, I was
quite nervous, but it went over well. The people liked it and most important I found out I
could do it and enjoyed doing it. Soon afterward I enrolled in a Congregational Church
Academy at Eureka, Kansas. There I went to school and preached for 2 country
churches."

.,.)

77

_)

...J
__)
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.,.)

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J
,..)

�In 1907 Susie Frances McClure and I were married. After finishing at the academy, we
moved to Topeka where I attended Washburn College."
"Later, Susie and I decided to move to Kiowa County in Colorado. We homesteaded
land near Eads. A Presbyterian minister came to preach at Eads once a month from La
Junta. When the people found out I could preach they let me speak for them and soon
gave me his job. I soon was traveling to two country churches to preach part time. With
a horse and buggy it required a lot of time going back and forth. My first Model T
expanded my range considerably. They soon had me going to Chivington and Brandon,
also. To most common people the Model Twas the most important invention of that
time. It would travel in all kinds of weather. Rain or snow all you had to do was button
down side curtains, put your nose against the windshield and go. Once while I was
taking an elderly man to the doctor in Colorado Springs, I remarked to him, 'I don't see
why anybody would want anything any better than this.' II was a cold miserable day. The
side curtains were flapping in the wind and we were wrapped in blankets. Uncomfortable
as people would be today, we thought it was wonderful to make such speed."
"In 1918 we moved to Florida Mesa to work with the Presbyterian congregations there
and at Bayfield. Our trip across the mountains was an experience to remember. Wolf
Creek Pass was little more than a trail. We stayed 3 years, living in the manse on
Florida Mesa before moving on to Monument. I was out of the ministry for one year.
Then I was assigned lo the Monument church for 13 years."
"In 1937 I was again assigned to the San Juan Larger parish which included Florida
Mesa, Bayfield, Ignacio and Allison. I stayed with this assignment until I retired in 1949.
In the later years the roads improved, but in the early years it was a real challenge to
make the rounds. Al one time I had a Model T, a buggy, a sled and a saddle. All were
needed at one time or another."
The Hasstedts had three children. Julia now lives in Castle Rock. Cecil and Dorothy are
both in Bayfield. Susie Hasstedt died in December of 1965. Mr. Hasstedt is now 99. He
has this bit of advice, 'Old age is not all fun. Put it off as long as possible.' Of course this
is said in fun. Mr. Hasstedt is in good health. His hearing is good. He has a good
appetite and he feels good. Best of all, his mind is sharp and full of good humor. One
thing he regrets is the gradual losing of his eyesight. he has given away all his books.
"I can't read any more. Fortunately, I have memorized a good deal of scripture, but I
have forgotten a lot of it, too. They usually let me preach on the Sunday nearest to my
birthday. I don't like to talk about hell and damnation. My favorite subject of them all is
God and his plan of salvation for all men."
Mr. Hasstedt now lives in Bayfield with his son, Cecil, and his daughter in law, Doris. We
wish lo thank him for all the years he has been a help and an encouragement to his
fellowman and wish him many more years of good health.
August, 1978 - Shelby Smith

78

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          <element elementId="51">
            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="1955">
                <text>Text</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="39">
            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="1956">
                <text>Hasstedt, Rudolph John; Hasstedt, Susie (McClure)</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="78">
            <name>Extent</name>
            <description>The size or duration of the resource.</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="1957">
                <text>2 pages</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="2443">
                <text>	http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="37">
            <name>Contributor</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="2523">
                <text>Smith, Shelby</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
        </elementContainer>
      </elementSet>
    </elementSetContainer>
  </item>
</itemContainer>
